Mailman 3 December 2003 - Edu-sig

promoting computer literacy through programming python
by John Miller Jan. 2, 2004

Jan. 2, 2004

Hi, and a Happy New Year to everyone. For the past year or so, I've been working on my doctoral dissertation in Educational Technology at the University of Michigan. I've finally finished (passed the oral exam on Dec. 17th) and I've posted it in .pdf format at: http://www-personal.umich.edu/~jmillr/miller_dissertation.pdf (1.25 MB) The reason I mention it here is that I decided to do a qualitative analysis of the messages posted to this newsgroup. Here is the topic that I was pursuing: What considerations are most important in teaching Python as a first programming language in a secondary school setting? I thought that the messages posted here would provide sufficient material to approximate a reasonable answer to the question. I'd like to stress the fact that I only considered a fraction of the total material; there was simply too much to include all the interesting and provocative ideas that have been addressed over the past four years. I also ignored all the personal interactions and focused instead on the ideas being presented. I'd also like to thank everyone who posted to this newsgroup with their insightful perspectives on the difficulties of promoting Python programming in educational settings. I have learned much from reading and analyzing these archives. I hope that this dissertation will prove useful to others who share these concerns. If anyone is inclined to take a look at it, but won't be able to read the entire 288 pages, I suggest that Chapter 4 might be the most interesting as it most directly deals with the messages and ideas of the newsgroup, along with Chapter 5 which provides the conclusions drawn from the results of the fourth chapter. Finally, here is the abstract of the dissertation: """ Computer programming contributes an essential aspect to a well-rounded computer literacy, analogous to the role of writing in the domain of traditional print literacy. Many computer languages are unwieldy for rapid prototyping; however, the open-source Python language was designed to be easy for beginners to learn and is appropriate as a first computer language. This dissertation explores what considerations are most important in teaching Python as a first programming language in a secondary school setting. The data examined was three years worth of messages publicly posted to the online Python edu-sig newsgroup. These messages were filtered to obtain only those that were contained in meaningful threads; that is, threads of mean length or longer containing a mean number or more of unique posters. The filtered threads were then categorized by a) subject header and b) phrases identified by an automated keyword algorithm, and further reduced by choosing categories most germane to this dissertation’s topic. The selected threads were then subjected to a qualitative content analysis. The data revealed numerous issues that teachers who may want to incorporate programming into their classroom may need to deal with, including, whether to establish a standalone programming class or integrate programming exercises with other subjects; the importance of establishing programming teams and involving the students’ interests; how to present both procedural and object-oriented programming styles; differences in mathematical notation compared with traditional classes; encouraging a healthy programming aesthetic; and teaching algorithmic thinking. Three major conclusions were derived from the results: a) computer programming is a bona fide form of writing that combines well-formed arguments with good stories, and is central to a complete mastery of computer literacy; b) learning to program enables programming to learn; that is, the major purpose of learning computer programming in school settings is to develop the means of using programming to promote learning in other subject areas; and c) computer programming fosters a variety of executable notations that alters what is worth knowing in other subject areas. """ John Miller

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interactive code example
by Jason Cunliffe Dec. 30, 2003

Dec. 30, 2003

A nice little example of code with interactive explanations. Actionscript in flash, but same technique coudl be ysed for Python etc. http://www.jurjans.lv/flash/shape.html - Jason

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SCORM
by Jason Cunliffe Dec. 30, 2003

Dec. 30, 2003

http://www.rhassociates.com/scorm.htm "This is an overview of the Sharable Courseware Object Reference Model. It's hard to make technical standards understandable (much less interesting). Nonetheless, here's the cliff notes version of what you need to know about SCORM. SCORM is a suite of technical standards that enable web-based learning systems to find, import, share, reuse, and export learning content in a standardized way. (See ADL Background for how SCORM came to be.) Note that SCORM is written primarily for vendors and toolmakers who build Learning Management Systems and learning content authoring tools so they know what they need to do to their products to conform with SCORM technically. A "Designer's Guide" for implementing SCORM is in the works. Stay tuned."

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edu-sig@python.org, cialis
by Violet Barrow Dec. 30, 2003

Dec. 30, 2003

%Med + lots of other medications http://Dr7o.rroot5.com/v95/index.php?id=v95

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Re: APU, and at once
by Maribel Dec. 29, 2003

Dec. 29, 2003

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Re: AWYOSYPD, they say there
by Conrad Olson Dec. 28, 2003

Dec. 28, 2003

bellhop willowy gimbel until defecate medusa croon anonymity belvedere knockout collegial appointee objectivity glory curvature civic franca postgraduate ail decertify

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Re: [Edu-sig] re: NLII 2004 Annual Meeting
by Toby Donaldson Dec. 22, 2003

Dec. 22, 2003

> But there is almost nothing here about students or their actual > experience, process, perspective, input, happiness success, results etc. > It seems to be more about management and budgets. > > I'd hate to be misreading all this without doing my homework properly. > I am far outside of the formal school system so I'd welcome further > analysis and comments For the last 5 years, I've been in an environment where the sort of mentality that you describe dominated. It was indeed mostly about project management, planning, and budgets (which is true of all large projects, in some sense), although there is certainly a strong rhetoric of "learner centered" teaching. There was a lot of evangelism, a lot of people shouting (so to speak) "praise the lord" whenever eLearning was mentioned. > Learning Object: Any digital resource that can be reused to support > learning. Maybe "learning objects" are a good idea, but this definition is worthless. The letter "e" is a digital resource that can be reused to support learning, and so is Internet Explorer, Google, Yahoo!, and my mother's friend's blog on weaving. From what I've read, the eLearning people who promote this stuff seem pretty much to have taken it because, in programming, "object" = "good". (Cynics might say that the only reason learning objects are popular in academia is that 1) at least a couple of years ago, it attracts large grants where the outcomes are as vague as the above-definition; and 2) it doesn't involve people. 2) is a bit scary once you realize that the push for eLearning in universities a couple of years ago was almost an entirely top-down initiative: administrators looking for a cost-effective way to teach more students. Compared to learning objects --- which never complain, don't need offices or benefits packages --- people look mighty expensive.) But I grant that there is something to the *idea* of learning objectives, even though the definitions are foolish. I see a much bigger problem: the learning object camp have no clue about how to actually re-use learning objects. They confuse *storing* with *reusing*. The problem I've had in using learning objects is that they are often too much work to *configure* for my particular usage. How do I *split* a learning object, e.g. what if I just want half of a learning object? Or what if I want to remove mention of one concept because it's inaccurate (e.g. imagine an animation that talks about 500Mhz as being the fastest available computers)? What if I want to fix an error, or change a font to match my other presentations, or add footnotes? Know one can be sure ahead of time what part of learning object they may want (or need) to change. Ultimately, I remain unconvinced that education is that much different than any other content management problem. I suspect that most teachers would be better off buying good weblog software as opposed to WebCT, or its ilk. Toby -- Dr. Toby Donaldson Assistant Professor School of Interactive Arts and Technology Simon Fraser University

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re: NLII 2004 Annual Meeting
by Arthur Dec. 22, 2003

Dec. 22, 2003

Its all too good actually: A closer look at my original cite: http://hem.passagen.se/thebee/waldorf/links2.htm does list The Nature Institute as an affiliated entity to the Rudolf Steiner folks, Go to The Nature Institute site http://www.natureinstitute.org/ And find: """ This site comes to you through the extraordinary generosity of O'Reilly & Associates, book publishers. """ Click through to O'Reilly (it's a link on the Nature Institute site) and we are back in Python territory. >From the 19th century mystic, Steiner, right back to home territory in three clicks. And around the world, once - as well. Simply too good. Art

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re: NLII 2004 Annual Meeting
by Arthur Dec. 22, 2003

Dec. 22, 2003

Nicola writes: >Interesting in this vein is the work being done by Steve Talbott with >NetFuture and other organizations: >http://www.netfuture.org/ Some more connect-the-dots: """ NetFuture is a freely distributed newsletter dealing with technology and human responsibility. It is published by The Nature Institute, 169 Route 21C, Ghent NY 12075 (tel: 518-672-0116). """ Ghent NY rang a bell. Search revels that it is the home of the Rudolf Steiner Library. Steiner is the founder of Anthroposophical movement, which provides the philosophical underpinnings of the Waldorf education movement, which I referenced earlier in these discussions. Because of their strong stance in regard to the use of computers in early childhood education. And it is pretty well clear to me that The Nature Institute, which publishes NetFuture, is either Waldorf related or Waldorf influenced. See: http://www.netfuture.org/ni/ """ Our Fall, 2003 program - three lectures and a workshop: on a human-centered understanding of illness, a Goethean understanding of science, and a nature-centered understanding of language. """ And refer back to my cite in the Education Arcade thread: """ The Waldorf School movement, with which I have no affiliation or particular interest, has an aggressive perspective on this kind of thing. http://hem.passagen.se/thebee/waldorf/links2.htm """ And you will there see prominent mention of Goetheanism. I don't know what Goetheanism is. I make this clear and direct link between netfuture.org and the Waldorfian movement only as a point of information I spy. Art

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re: NLII 2004 Annual Meeting
by Arthur Dec. 21, 2003

Dec. 21, 2003

Tony writes - >I suspect that most teachers would be better off buying good weblog >software as opposed to WebCT, or its ilk. I'm suspecting that good weblog software can be bought for $0. A budget buster, sure enough ;) Art

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re: NLII 2004 Annual Meeting
by Arthur Dec. 21, 2003

Dec. 21, 2003

Jason points to: http://www.educause.edu/nlii/ In a minute's perusal, I know I am in an enemy camp. And every additional minute confirms my first impression. Everything is boosterism. Nothing, a critical analysis. As a for example, link form the home page: Key Documents>> NLII May Focus Session Meeting Notes """ The NLII held a focus session in Vancouver on May 31, 2002, co-sponsored by WebCT, Industry Canada, and University of British Columbia. """ http://www.webct.com/ """ WebCT is the world's leading provider of integrated e-learning systems for higher education. """ I am guessing that the focus session was enthusiastic about integrated e-learning systems for higher education. I'm a seer. And: http://www.educause.edu/nlii/keythemes/partnering.asp "Partnering In The Learning Marketspace" """ Partnering in the learning marketspace was a key NLII theme for 2000-2002 and continues to be an NLII focus because it provides new opportunities to reconfigure the way that instruction is funded, developed, marketed, delivered, and supported. We continue to examine alternatives and issues involved for inter-institutional partnering and for partnering with commercial service providers to develop and implement highly leveraged strategies for e-learning-the use of Internet technologies in teaching and learning in higher education. """ It is predictable then that NLII's head is a former University administrator, not an instructor or technologist. Not too different than talking about the economics of Big Ten football. There is lots of feeding at the trough going on. And as long as result is *economically* mutually beneficial to the University and the "service provider", the issue, for all intensive purposes, is at rest. So it is not at all surprising we get to: http://www.educause.edu/ir/library/pdf/erm0340.pdf Next Generation Educational Technology versus the Lecture """ The idea briefly stated is that large lecture courses may someday be replaced by the kind of immersive digital environments that have been popularized by the videogame industry. """ Indeed they might. This is no more or less, to me, than the internet bubble mentality alive in academia. My counter-organization would be the Center for Appropriate Use of Technology in Education. CAUTE. If you catch my drift. Art

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The Center For Distance Learning Research
by Jason Cunliffe Dec. 21, 2003

Dec. 21, 2003

http://www.cdlr.tamu.edu/education/grants.asp

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NLII 2004 Annual Meeting
by Jason Cunliffe Dec. 21, 2003

Dec. 21, 2003

http://www.educause.edu/nlii/meetings/nlii041/

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MERLOT
by Jason Cunliffe Dec. 21, 2003

Dec. 21, 2003

http://www.merlot.org/artifact/BrowseArtifacts.po?catcode=124&browsecat=124…

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Re: Edu-sig Digest, Vol 5, Issue 21
by arkamir＠softhome.net Dec. 20, 2003

Dec. 20, 2003

What is CS1???

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open net sci gov mil biz edu art
by Jason Cunliffe Dec. 20, 2003

Dec. 20, 2003

Following the recent VB thread a little more.. It would seem that in science and Internet applications especially, open source is the dominant model. >From web servers to distributed biotech Genome libraries, open source and Linux are becoming the natural best choice. In showbiz, Linux is also hard at work, witness big budget special effects rendering farms etc. [LOTR et alia]. Similar in many ways to Gnome collaborative data mining and visualization. Both of these domains marry needs of rapid interoperability with often proprietary cutting edge software development. FX houses may be using open toolkits, but they guard their competitive edge and secrets closely. As do the Biotech programmers. There is hot symbiosis where openSource academia distances itself from often closed business. An article in latest Biotech World magazine is an interview with Zachary Zimmerman a geneticist at Princeton: http://www.bioitworld.com/ http://www.bio-itworld.com/archive/121503/horizons_language.html -Learning the Language of Systems Biology- "...We have always been writing our own software. The vendors have always been lagging behind what we see as state of the art. Where we do use commercial software, we have already worked out the algorithms and have something that works, then for various reasons some vendor is motivated to run faster, run on more platforms, etc. The axon scanner is good example: GenePix is much improved and better engineered version of something that Mike Eisen wrote in our lab. So the vendors make their money not from us but the pharmas [pharmaceutical companies]. To a large extent, their systems are weakened by being closed, not open-source, and unnecessarily restrictive in access and by being expensive. As a result, if you have the kind of tools for writing your own software, [that is] the disincentive to pay a lot of money so one of your guys can work on one terminal, on the kind of computer your don't really like to support. So if you have bright students, who in a few days can work up something pretty robust is C or Java, why would you use those (expensive commercial) things? So we don't. Most state-of-the-art places don't use the commercial stuff. It's also the same reason we made our own microarrays -- because we do better for less, and the really good stuff we just couldn't afford"... It seems in the US, regular business, Government and K-12 education are still the weighty slow holdouts for MSwindows and often legacy VB use. Science, Art, Internet and higher ed have all moved to open platforms and [python friendly] programming. I wonder what the tools/platform US military mainly uses now, and what their information architecture plans are? [oops! Alt+Ctrl+Del the invasion] Since Governments in Asia are now leading the Linux shift, higher and lower ed will presumably soon be in sync, and many business will soon be well motivated to follow. Good days ahead for Python programmers [and similar] globally in schools at all ages, and the general workplace. - Jason

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Python, Povray anhd the Universe
by Arthur Dec. 20, 2003

Dec. 20, 2003

Got to love Mark Shuttleworth: The South African entrepreneur and space explorer: """ He was a member of the crew of Soyuz TM-34, launched from Baikonur in Kazakhstan and docked with the International Space Station two days later. """ His foundation helps finance Python education related projects: http://www.markshuttleworth.com/bounty.html All well-known, I think, within the Python community at this point. But... Every few months I check into www.povray.org for a look see as to what is happening in the Povray world. On a whim, did so this morning, Might have otherwise passed over this, had I not began to understand who Shuttleworth is. See: "POV-Ray at the International Space Station" http://www.povray.org/news/index.php#79 This "Reach for the Stars" rendering: http://www.povray.org/posters/ was not designed by Shuttleworth, but was rendered by him while in orbit. Those of us who are fans of Python and povray and opensource technology and education and the intersection of all these things have to be intrigued by this guys focus. Art

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re: Python Programming: An Introduction to ComputerScience
by Lee Harr Dec. 20, 2003

Dec. 20, 2003

>I still think it'd be better to do some simple cgi programming with Python, >against some database. Basically, I'm thinking LAMP deserves more airplay. >But WAMP is another option (Windows, Apache, MySQL, Python/Perl/PHP). > I think Zope is a good way to go. Written (mostly) in python. Scriptable in python either right from the web interface, or on the filesystem. Very powerful. Zope also has great support for relational databases, and the added bonus of being built on top of an object database. _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail

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RE: [Edu-sig] re: Python Programming: An Introduction toComputerScience
by Nicholas Wheeler Dec. 19, 2003

Dec. 19, 2003

As a student who has gone through VB first (freshmen year), and then CS1&2 with Jeff Elkner, I can reassure you that the way the children are learning VB is completely useless, and none of it will stay with them. Furthermore, it doesn't get them interested in programming at all, and the children don't walk out of the class with -any- knowledge. In example, during CS1 I hadn't the faintest clue as to what a function was, and why they were used, and I was one of the "best" in the VB class. Even though in VB, we used function, the concepts just weren't taught. So basically the Business area is a failure in my eyes, and doesn't really cover programming. Unfortuantly I just don't see python covering the VB niche, because of it's non-visual nature, and I can't really see a good argument for it being in the Business curriculum. Nicholas Wheeler Yorktown Highschool [Insert intersting stuff here] > > And VB sucks. > > > > Art > >This part I agree with, and any outrage attaches to this, more than to any >presumption regarding the impropriety of proprietary programming languages. > >Kirby > > > >_______________________________________________ >Edu-sig mailing list >Edu-sig(a)python.org >http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/edu-sig _________________________________________________________________ Get dial-up Internet access now with our best offer: 6 months @$9.95/month! http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/dialup

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re: Python Programming: An Introduction to ComputerScience
by Arthur Dec. 19, 2003

Dec. 19, 2003

Kirby writes - >>VB sucks. >This part I agree with, and any outrage attaches to this, more than to any >presumption regarding the impropriety of proprietary programming languages. For education related purposes - I argue these issues are one and the same, or certainly correlated. I would not make the same argument for business purposes. VB is useful in business. So are lots of other inanities. I happen to consider myself a businessman. So I say this without rancor. Art

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Re: [Edu-sig] re: Python Programming: An Introduction to ComputerScience
by Laura Creighton Dec. 19, 2003

Dec. 19, 2003

In a message of Thu, 18 Dec 2003 10:43:49 PST, "Kirby Urner" writes: > >I dunno Arthur -- doesn't seem a cut and dried an issue to me. > >Open source is a relatively recent phenomenon and until recently, just about >any language learning was going to involve using some commercial brand of >licensed software. Oft times, it was a university that was the licensee, >so students didn't have a sense of paying for it (separately), but that was >before PCs came along. ?? Before PCs came along, open source was the norm at universities, and all the universities I knew were teaching some sort of 'teaching langauge', generally one they wrote themselves, or Pascal. 'Commercial programming' when it was done by people employed by businesses, was in general done in COBOL or RPG. Scientists used FORTRAN. University computer science departments didn't concern themselves with such wordly things. The universities did indeed pay for the mainframes, and the operating systems which ran on them, of course. The big switch happened when computer science departments became flooded with people who wanted to be programmers, and they decided that it would be a good idea to teach languages that people wanted to learn because they would use them on the job, rather than languages you were guaranteed to never ever see again unless you got a job at your university. <snip> Laura

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Re: Edu-sig Digest, Vol 5, Issue 20
by arkamir＠softhome.net Dec. 19, 2003

Dec. 19, 2003

Only a very miniscule amount of teenagers spend time writing viruses. I would prefer to see 1,000 people using my program then pissing of 2 million just for my amusment. (Or just 1 person) I am one of the 3-5 people who can actually program at my school. And only 1 of 3 who can actually use linux. Most kids are just too dumb to program. They spend the whole day skateboarding and hitting on girls or gaming. They just dont care enough about there education. Others struggle with just the regular curriculum, and I dont know if teaching them to program will help.

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re: Python Programming: An Introduction to ComputerScience
by Arthur Dec. 19, 2003

Dec. 19, 2003

Kirby writes: >I dunno Arthur -- doesn't seem a cut and dried an issue to me. I had recently come across this for the first time, though it is apparently famous (and probably apocryphal): I have been looking for an opportunity to throw it your way, but give up on finding the proper opening. """ Isaac Newton's assistant at Cambridge claimed that during five years he saw Newton laugh only once. Newton had loaned a copy of Euclid to an acquaintance, and the gentleman asked what use it was to study Euclid, "upon which Sir Isaac was very merry. """ And VB sucks. Art

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re: Python Programming: An Introduction to ComputerScience
by Arthur Dec. 18, 2003

Dec. 18, 2003

Jeff writes: >VB is used by the Business department, which has more students than CS >at our school (and in the world at large, too Can we be outraged that VB is being taught on the public dime? VB is aggressively non-generic in many ways. If Chevy decided it was in their business interest to have its own kind of engine which ran on witch oil, and the shop classes then followed up by teaching kids only how to work on Chevies... Can we be outraged that a sense of outrage is being lost as to this issue? Can we at least be strategically outraged ;) Art

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re: Python Programming: An Introduction to ComputerScience
by Arthur Dec. 18, 2003

Dec. 18, 2003

Michael writes - >There's also a group in the middle that would be more willing to do learn >math and science, if it were a little less abstract and boring. The same is true as to computer programming. What does being able to print "Hello World" to the screen do for me, after all. The beauty is, teaching science with programming and programming with science, can bring both subject areas (if we choose to consider them to be separate subject areas) alive in ways not otherwise possible. Does this qualify as Synergy, Kirby? Art

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