Mailman 3 December 2003 - Edu-sig

Re: Python Programming: An Introduction to Computer Science
by Arthur 12 Dec '03

12 Dec '03

Kirby writes - >The frustrating part is this means cool CS2-level features of Python may >not get much if any airplay. etc. You can guess, probably, my reaction. This is an identity issue within the Python world, not spontaneous occurrences. And, you are right, unrelated to the programming language itself. Python, according to its enthusiasts, is the perfect tool for enterprise development and for 12 year olds. Python3.0, of course, will remove the barriers for the 8 to 12 crowd, while adding new enterprise functionality. Sound reasonable? To ears other than those of enthusiasts. Ah.. for the middle ground. Art

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FW: Recent presentation on Kid's Software for Linux
by Arthur 11 Dec '03

11 Dec '03

Though software for "kids" is not a great interest of mine, I forward this knowing there has been much general interest in the subject emanating from others on the list. One thing I got from a quick look at the presentation was quite positive. Clearly distinguishing between entertainment and educational software. Probably the biggest reason I react negatively to the general subject of software for kids is that there seems to be a reluctance to make clear distinctions here. Particularly in the case of non-commercial software. Somehow if its directed at kids, and comes out of the opensource community, its educational - in some overly vague way. Obviously there is nothing wrong with opensource efforts to entertain kids. But there seems to be a habit of misclassification, or certainly vagueness, here. Art -----Original Message----- From: Bill Kendrick [mailto:nbs@sonic.net] Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2003 7:11 AM To: debian-edu(a)lists.debian.org; debian-jr(a)lists.debian.org Subject: Recent presentation on Kid's Software for Linux I whipped together a presentation for my local Linux User Group this month, on "Kid's Software for Linux." I of course mentioned Debian Jr and Edu projects. ;^) I thought you folks might care to take a peek. Enjoy! http://www.lugod.org/presentations/kidslinux/ -bill! bill(a)newbreedsoftware.com Got kids? Get Tux Paint! http://newbreedsoftware.com/bill/ http://newbreedsoftware.com/tuxpaint/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-edu-request(a)lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster(a)lists.debian.org

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re: Draft of a funding request
by Arthur 11 Dec '03

11 Dec '03

Me- >To me, this is why Python deserves and gets the $2 mil. Me more - $2 mil is a lot of money. Gets juices flowing. Were I doing the proposal I would state, as an example of the kind of Python3.0 work that might go into the development sprints, the effort at the integration of the full range of the current Numeric's functionality as a core Python module. Inclusive of whatever changes to core Python, if any, that might be necessary to accomplish that integration as elegantly as possible. a) Because that would be a very good thing. b) Because it would provide a context within the proposal to reference some of the significant work being done with the Python/Numeric combo in governmental and quasi-governmental work, and in academia. I am making eminent good sense to myself. But then I usually do. People pay me for this kind of advice - broadly defined. At this point of my life, most of the people who do so have known me for years. And know exactly what they are getting and not getting. Here, who knows. Art

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Soya 3D library
by Dethe Elza 09 Dec '03

09 Dec '03

I don't recall seeing this before. via Daily Python-URL: http://oomadness.tuxfamily.org/en/soya/index.html <quote> oya 3D is a high-level 3D engine for Python, designed with games in mind. Soya is written partly in Python and partly in C; our goal is to provide a full architecture for making free (GPL) game of professionnal quality entirely in Python. Other tools, in the same spirit, will follow (watch for a network game engine soon !). 3D rendering relies on OpenGL, and setting up on SDL. The engine is fully object oriented, high level (even more than traditional "scene graphs") and practical. </quote> There are windows binaries (which don't help me any) and source. I haven't gotten the source up and running on OS X yet, but I'll look into it further. This looks like an interesting alternative to VPython and Blender. --Dethe "All spiritual paths have four steps: show up, pay attention, tell the truth, and don't be attached to the results." Angeles Arien

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re: Draft of a funding request
by Arthur 09 Dec '03

09 Dec '03

>I've put together a funding request for the development of an educational >distribution of Python software. No surprise, I have some comments. The CP4E proposal referenced in yours gives a good deal of stress to the creation of a "programming environment". Now, IDLE exists, as do numbers of other Python enhanced editors and IDEs of various types. An embarrassment of riches. So, it seems to me, unless you or anyone else has some specific ideas of what of significance is yet missing, can't that stage be marked as essentially complete. And the proposal enhanced by in fact stressing that this has already been accomplished, based on the original DARPA grant. And that the requested funds can be assumed to be in furtherance of goals beyond that which was funded and completed by way of the CP4E funding. You are not saying anything contrary to this. You just aren't stressing that an important phase has already been funded and completed. I certainly don't know much about this kind of funding application. Wouldn't a much, much more detail budget in connection with the expenditure of funds be a necessity? Hate to say it, but I would hope so. Is it just that you posting up a generic draft, with those kinds of details to be provided, in the case of specific proposals. I also happen to believe that - strategically, trying to go head to head with Java at this moment in time is unrealistically ambitious. And likely to backfire. No matter how correct the substance of your argument might be - or, better, is. I would be stressing the many projects already using Python in math and science related educational environments. And targeting funds to expand and enhance those kinds of uses for Python. Robotics, mathematics, physics, etc and etc. All ideological notions aside, this to me has to be the best strategic approach. Betting all on being able to convince folks that Java needs to be backbenched - too much on one number, IMO. A long shot. And definitely not the way to go. Though I certainly wish you luck, however you decide to approach it. Art

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Re: Edu-sig Digest, Vol 5, Issue 5
by Conrad Koziol 09 Dec '03

09 Dec '03

Can anyone point me to a python download for windows which doesnt effect the registry and is small?? Sorry but im not good with windows and have to install python at school but i have a limited amount of space. One download expanded too 3 gigs :(. It was couple years old and I think it was corrupted. Thanks a lot

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Draft of a funding request
by Michael McLay 08 Dec '03

08 Dec '03

I've put together a funding request for the development of an educational distribution of Python software. I'd like to get some feedback on the attached letter of inquiry. This version of the request is targeting the Kellogg Foundation's "Philanthropy and Volunteerism" initiative [1], but I think it could be extended and submitted for funding from the National Science Foundation's "Math and Science Partnership Program (MSP)" request for proposals [2]. The NSF proposal for MSP has a relatively short fuse. The proposals are due on December 16th. Please speak up if you are interested in participating on the NSF work. I'd like to get a list of resumes together to add to the proposal. I have a small business that does Python development and government contracting lined up to help with managing the grant reporting and funding management. If I get some indication of interest from the list I'll work with them on submitting the application. The plan is to have the small business work with the PSF on the project and in the process we can use this activity to boostrap the PSF as a funding organization. My goal is to pursue additional funding opportunities and get related projects funded. If we can get enough work in place we should be able to eventually hire staff for PSF. As you will see from this proposal the staff would help organize and manage Python sprints. The staff would also work on getting additional funds for Python related research. I've identified over a dozen NSF programs which look like promising candidates for funding Python projects, so I think there is ample opportunity for funding. Later this week I will attending some workshops at the Foundation Center [3] that should help with identifying other potential sources of funding. (The titles of each of the sections of the letter are from the Kellogg Foundation online submission form.) [1] http://www.wkkf.org/Programming/Overview.aspx?CID=288 [2] http://www.nsf.gov/pubs/2003/nsf03605/nsf03605.htm [3] http://www.fdncenter.org/ Letter of Inquiry for the Kellogg Foundation Purpose Statement: Development of a distribution of Python software for use in K-12 education and development of an improved version of the Python language. The mission of the educational software is described in the "Computer Programming for Everyone" (CP4E) [1] project. [1] http://www.python.org/doc/essays/cp4e.html Total Dollar Amount Requested: $2,000,000 over three years Project Objectives and Proposed Activities: Python has been used very successfully to teach the fundamentals of computer science in high schools [2]. We believe this success is grounds for making Python the standard language to be used in advanced placement exams in computer science, as well as a foundation for developing computer literacy in the general population. To facilitate this goal, the Python community would like to develop an open source distribution of materials that can be used for teaching computer science (See the CP4E paper for more information on the overall project goals.) This would be a living project in which materials are added as they are developed. The project would create plan the release of distributions of Python based educational software, and supporting documentation, for teaching computer science to coincide with school year schedules. (The material would be made available through a website, but also as ISO images that could be downloaded and burned onto CDROMs.) A second component of the proposed grant would fund the development of Python 3.0. This new revision of the Python language would add improvements to the language that will strengthen the language distribution and make it even better as a tool for teaching computer science. [2] http://www.oreilly.com/pub/a/oreilly/frank/elkner_0300.html Time Schedules or Anticipated Duration of Proposed Grant: The distributions of educational materials will be an on-going activity. Developing Python 3.0 is expected to take two to three years to complete. Anticipated Outcomes: The funding would facilitate the assemble of a comprehensive collection of software and educational material for use in teaching computer programming using Python. And it would help to expedite the development of the Python 3.0. The funding would be used to host a series of "sprint" workshops for Python experts and to fund some researchers to work part-time and possibly full-time on Python software development and packaging. The "sprint" workshop development model has been successfully used to improve the rate at which open source software can be developed. While most of the work can be done via the Internet, there is a need for periodic person to person communications in a "sprint" setting. These meetings usually include presentations and demonstrations of software that is being proposed as an improvement or an addition to the software distributions. The dialogs that take place at the workshops are extremely effective at stimulating new ideas and energizing the community of volunteers. Unfortunately not all volunteers can afford to pay their way to attend sprints. The funding would help insure that the all the major contributors to Python are able to attend the sprints. A major goal of funding this activity will be to develop material that will make it feasible to promote Python as a viable replacement of Java as the standard language for Advanced Placement exams in computer science. Java was selected because it was widely used, not because it was particularly good as a tool for teaching computer science. In fact, there are a number of limitations of Java that make it a poor choice for teaching the full scope of objectives that should be taught in a modern computer science curriculum. Experience with using Python at the college CS1 and CS2 level [3] indicate that Python would be a more effective language for quickly teaching the fundamentals of computer science at the undergraduate level. The referenced papers outline the many technical reasons for Python being a better language for teaching computer science. It is important to note that Python is not just at teaching language, such as Pascal or ABC. Python is a pragmatic and efficient technology that used by serious computer scientists throughout the industry. [3] http://mcsp.wartburg.edu/zelle/python/python-first.html Personnel and Financial Resources Available: The Python community includes a world-wide assembly of world-class software developers. As an open source software project, like Linux, all of the source code is available online [4]. There are 57 persons with commit privileges to the Python software repository and several hundred additional contributors who submit software without commit access. There are also thousands of applications and extension modules [5] that are written in Python that are not part of the standard Python distribution. The main Python language website [6] provides a portal into the community of activity. The in-kind support of this community is enormous. The core language developers devote thousands of hours per year to the development of the language distribution. One measure of this effort can be found by browsing the email list of the core developers. There have been over 20,000 email messages to this list over the last two years. Browsing the content of the email archives reveals a devoted community of philanthropy and volunteerism. The proposed grant would leverage this work by enabling some of these volunteer to travel to meetings and by compensating some of the drudge work that might otherwise not be done . [4]http://sourceforge.net/projects/python/ [5]http://sourceforge.net/softwaremap/trove_list.php?form_cat=178 and an example of education specific projects at http://schooltool.org/ [6]http://www.python.org/ [7]http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/ Sustainability Strategy: The Python community has been working on the development of Python since 1991 and they have received awards and industry recognition for the excellence of their work. Work on the development of Python is an perfect example of how the Internet has enabled philanthropy and volunteerism. The community has a very good track record for delivering results without any funding and the community may eventually create a 3.0 release. The resources of the core contributors are limited, however, and in order for some of the key developers to work on Python 3.0 and on the development of the educational distribution, some direct funding support will be required. This funding is primarily intended to accelerate the process. The funding would be of particular importance to K-12 educators. They are generally underpaid and have no travel budgets. Without funding it will be impossible for them to attend Python sprints. Ideally we could arrange for some of the leaders in this arena to be funded for work on a Python based curriculum during their summer recess. Funding the CP4E Python effort will enable them to devote resources to preparing polished and professional educational material that can be shared by all school systems throughout the world.

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CPS
by Jason Cunliffe 08 Dec '03

08 Dec '03

http://www.bonneville.nl/cps/

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High school popularity flip-flops; nerds now 'in.'
by Jason Cunliffe 08 Dec '03

08 Dec '03

http://www.freelancestar.com/News/FLS/2003/122003/12022003/1182553

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re: Checking an assumption
by Arthur 05 Dec '03

05 Dec '03

Laura writes - >Assumption one sets you clearly on the path of _education_ rather than >_training_. (Training is pretty much all about repetitive action.) >When _educating_ works, you need students who are able to memorize new >chunks of abstract knowledge, and then know exactly where to store and >apply it in the knowledge structures which they have in their own >brains. This will only happen if your students already have a nice >collection of mathematical knowledge, and enough mathematical >intuition to know how and where to add new stuff. We all have our themes. And, it often seems to me, that our differences tend to be more about how we use language, than in the substance. "Training", as repetitive action, one of your themes. I suspect I must misunderstand what you mean. For example: My ability to memorize is weak. Plagues me. My ability to absorb abstract ideas decent. There are many concepts I've absorbed, which when I confront again, I understand in broad brush, but find I have lost the details. But the details are usually easy to retrieve. The concepts, if truly absorbed, become the basis of intuition. Which is the most important thing to develop, in most fields, it seems to me. Yes, repetition is admittedly part of that process. But I am not sure to what extent it is to its essence. >I assume that your students will be older than this. Indeed, I assume >that they either a) already know how to program, or b) the statistics >that you wish to teach them are the sort that you can do in a trivial >amount of Python code -- the sort of thing that you can just type into >a Python interpreter. If you don't have this sort of match, then >what you will end up doing is teaching your students how to program. PyGeo has lead me to actually lecture in front of a few math faculty groups. It actually blew my mind that the whole subject of programming was a blank slate to many of them. It was partly, at least, generational. Which makes sense. I can't believe that a new generation of mathematicians would not have a programming toolchest as a given. One of *my* themes. >What is important is to get the ability to visualise data. And to learn >that, you have to draw it. Learning how to read graphs is not enough, and >learning how to write a computer program that draws graphs is also not >enough. You actually have to make a bunch of drawings, again and again and >again before, given a series, or an equation, you can actually have a >geometrical sense of what is going on. (And some people never get it, >no matter what you do. It is quite frustrating.) Check and make sure >that this is not what really is supposed to be taught in that class >before you replace the pen and pencil with Python, because in that >case your assumption 1 is shot, and you are supposed to be training >them. Some fundamental agreement. Most of the "dynamic geometry" applications commonly used in schools today - and, as it now stands, one of the few common K-12 uses of the computer in the mathematics classroom - can be quite destructive. Computers can be quite destructive. Doing by mouse clicks exactly what should be being done by compass and straight edge. Much, much is lost. Those same software tools, used with sparing intelligence - I am sure, can be a good plus. So it not the tools themselves, in isolation, which is the issue. I don't want PyGeo being used for teaching fundamental plane geometry - even though by insisting on script rather than encouraging mouse clicks - it is a step in the right direction. Flipside - I have built a tool that allows me to extend my imagination beyond its normal limitations, to visualize more advanced concepts than would otherwise be accessible to me by manual drawing of any kind. PyGeo was built exactly from that need, to allow me to see the kinds of things that others with more powerful visual imaginations might be able to see purely as imagination. Quite exciting, at times. And there is nothing quite like it out there, as far as I am aware. So yes I am proud, and yes I do go on about it. >Which is what I do all the time, and is the reason why I >always have to look them up. I never actually _know_ them. What is wrong with having to look them up. If you know where to find them, you know them - for all useful purposes. >This is a really useful and valuable skill, but probably not what you are >trying to teach. Why shouldn't it be? >This problem can work in the other direction as well. For instance, >you will have to give them a nice lecture on 'What is Floating Point, >When can you use it, and when must you never use it.'I'd dearly >love that lesson taught to high school students, world wide. But >it is tough going, and my gut feeling is that it will not be easy >to teach this one until your students have an extremely good sense >of what experimental error is. If they don't have that background, >then they may confuse floating point error with experimental error >which is a particularly nasty misconception to uproot later. Some folks have felt that physics students at major universities need to be protected from the concept. Arghhh, I say. Aren't we at least a bit about being a vanguard here? Speaking up and out on this kind of thing. Yes it is tough going. >Also, when building a computer program to do some sort of problem in >numerical analysis, you may find that the bulk of the program is spent >doing corner cases and handling particularly nasty sorts of data. Damn divide by zero. Luckily for me, in what I happen to be studying, the corner cases are to the essence. So I resent dealing with them less. The straight line, *augmented by the point at infinity*, etc. But yes, you are right. Much focus ends up on dealing with the corner cases, when using a programming approach. A negative, I could see, in many circumstances. >Writing this code -- at least the way I do it -- is a matter of >writing a bunch of unit tests and building the code so that it handles >all the perverse cases. But first, your students may be too naive to >see the perverse cases -- this is where they are being first exposed >to them, after all, and second, in a basic statistics class, you may >want the students to focus on how things go when your data is >well-behaved, and doesn't provide any problem for the programmer. So >there the goals of test-driven design and learning the statistical >methods may work at cross-purposes. I don't know much about statistics. But would think that the perverse case is also to its essence. Or more to its essence than a student might otherwise commonly have reason to understand. >But, provided these problems do not raise their ugly heads, it looks >like a lot of fun, and could be the sort of class where you actually >get a taste of 'what life has to offer' rather than 'what school has >to offer'. Sounds good to me. Getting the school out of school - within reason, is great. Too much in that direction OTOH. Which is what you are also saying, as I am interpreting it. Getting middle-aged and seeing and appreciating the middle ground more and more... Well its sure hard to get anyone's attention by advocating the middle ground. What, no new paradigm? The old paradigm and the new paradigm - each done right - would look remarkably similar, IMO. Art

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