Mailman 3 March 2004 - Edu-sig

Re: [Tutor] what? (late nite entertainment) (*)
by Gregor Lingl 24 Mar '05

24 Mar '05

Now: early morning corrections ... Alfred Milgrom wrote: > Hi Gregor: > > Hard to work out what is what :) as there seems to be a typo in one > line of your code: > > if x[z]: x[z*z:n:z]=y[z*z:n:z] > > (At least it doesn't work on my machine with Python 2.2) > Yeah, I had the idea when playing around with some new features of Python 2.3, as I do sometimes late at night - before shutting down my computer. This one I found at: http://www.python.org/doc/2.3.3/whatsnew/section-slices.html and I looked for an example for use of "assignment with extended slices" ... > Also the subroutine breaks for n = 1 or less. > Maybe you need a line at the start to say > if n <2 : return [0] > what() was intended to generate all primes less than n. (In fact it's an implementation of the sieve of Eratosthenes). The bugs came not only from not beeing interested in primes less than 2 ;-) but also from beeing a little tired already. Sorry. I think the following version repairs that - and hopefully uses less obfuscating variable names (which in fact originally was part of the "riddle"): def primes(n): sieve, zeros = range(n), [0]*n sieve[:2]= 0,0 i = 1 while i*i < n: if sieve[i]: sieve[i*i:n:i]=zeros[i*i:n:i] i += 1 return [p for p in sieve if p] Regards, Gregor >

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Pyro (Python robotics) site
by Arthur 30 Mar '04

30 Mar '04

I mentioned to some folks at PyCon that I would post up the site for the Pyro Python Robotics project. Which I hereby so do: http://pyrorobotics.org Art

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re: Network-safe Python Install for school use?
by Arthur 22 Mar '04

22 Mar '04

BJ writes - >WHEW. Finally head from my school district's IT dept. regarding the >possibility of installing Python for kids to learn programming on. They are >VERY resistant to this. I am amazed. The LiveCD route might provide at least a partial solution. It is plausible to me that a smart kid could do more network damage from a booted Linux LiveCD than from a hard drive install. But I suspect the perception is different, and as a practical matter, one might meet with far less resistance. http://www.frozentech.com/content/livecd.php?showonly=&sort=Purpose lists over 10 available LiveCD distros whose main purpose is educational. I suspect most, if not all, include a Python distribution. But I doubt if any are ideally configured for what one might want to use as a basis for teaching Python - IDLE, pygame, whatever else, etc. There is, for example, a Lisp resource kit in the educational category: http://www.common-lisp.net/project/lisp-res-kit/ I am surprised that nothing of the sort has emerged from the Python community. My own efforts to spark interest in such a project have met with luke warm response. But I might not be the right guy to be trying to organize a community effort. Art

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re: Network-safe Python Install for school use?
by Jeff Sandys 22 Mar '04

22 Mar '04

It is easy to make a cd that will run Pyhon on Windows without installation. Just copy the complete Python directory from a Windows computer with Python installed, AND the Python dll. Thanks, Jeff Sandys > Art, > > At first glance LiveCD is an interesting solution. But the problem > with it is that I want to be teaching (and learning) Python, not > Linux. I don't think it will work to take a student whose background > is in Windows, throw him/her on a Linux box and say, "Let's write > some Python!" > > I think building a standalone Python CD that will run on Windows is > more likely to work for me. Then at least I can tell the sysadmin > that I'm not going to install anything on the PC. > > Kent

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FW: squeak
by Arthur 19 Mar '04

19 Mar '04

Thought I'd forward this on to here. -----Original Message----- From: Arthur [mailto:ajsiegel@optonline.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 8:29 AM To: 'Bert Freudenberg'; 'debian-edu(a)lists.debian.org' Subject: RE: squeak > > There is a lot of collected license information on the Squeak Wiki: > > "Squeak-L" > http://minnow.cc.gatech.edu/squeak/159 >From that cite: """ It surprises many that "Open Source" has been given a very specific and stringent definition. There have been efforts to make this apply to "open source" in lower case, too. Apparently, Squeak is not "Open Source", and there is disagreement on whether it is "open source". Squeak Central does consider Squeak to be "open source", however, and pretty much everyone agrees that Squeak-L meets the spirit of the Open Source movement (which it predates by many years). """ Neither am I a lawyer, and neither do I wish to get into the fine print of licensing issues. But I am apparently not "pretty much everyone". Because what I can say without hesitation is that I do not see in Squeak a spirit and a history compatible with the *spirit* of debian. Understanding that Squeak has the perfect right to have its own spirit, its own community, and its own Squeak centric license, sensibilities, whatever. Which I do not argue against. Or make any accusations against. I would have no problem myself being part of that community, if that is where my interests led me. But, bottom line, I think Squeak's view is too Squeak-centric, to be compatible with a true free software and open source view ala debian. Which to me, from a technology point of view, emphasizes the advantages of technologies than can cooperate and leverage from each other. Squeak is a technology unto itself, with no goal or pretense to work cooperatively with any other technology. In that most important sense, it is closed. And incompatible with the *spirit* of free and open source, at least as I happen to understand and experience that spirit. Art

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Re: [Edu-sig] Network-safe Python Install for school use?
by Kent Johnson 19 Mar '04

19 Mar '04

I don't have any answers but you sure have my sympathy. I proposed to teach Python in a local adult-ed course in the high school computer lab. The sys admin basically freaked out, said NO, then avoided me. He wouldn't answer my phone messages or emails; the only way I was able to have a conversation with him at all was by camping out at his office waiting for him to show up. And this is in a school that already teaches Java and C++ programming! As far as I can figure it out, his thinking was something like this (I'm not kidding...) Python is open source Linux is open source Linux is an operating system Therefore Python is an operating system. Some guy wants to replace the operating system on all my computers so he can teach his course. No way!! Oh, I didn't help any by mentioning that I use a Dvorak keyboard layout and asking if that was OK...his conclusion was that I wanted to replace all the PHYSICAL keyboards with something else!!! I'm not kidding, this really happened to me! I finally gave up, I'm working with a different school district to offer the course there. Good luck! Kent > > From: "BJ MacNevin" <brian(a)macnevin.net> > Date: 2004/03/18 Thu PM 09:30:44 EST > To: <edu-sig(a)python.org> > Subject: [Edu-sig] Network-safe Python Install for school use? > > WHEW. Finally head from my school district's IT dept. regarding the > possibility of installing Python for kids to learn programming on. They are > VERY resistant to this. I am amazed. > > Their issues now: Python would allow some "smart studnet" to mess with the > network (microsoft networking). > > My response: can't I install a Python that has any networking removed? > > Any ideas? I'm frustrated beyond belief at my district's rigidity here. > > Thanks! > > BJ MacNevin > > > _______________________________________________ > Edu-sig mailing list > Edu-sig(a)python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/edu-sig >

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Re: [Edu-sig] squeak "obsolete"
by ajsiegel＠optonline.net 16 Mar '04

16 Mar '04

> Squeak, "an obsolete product", seems to have a robust > developemnt community behind it. The squeak-dev > mailing list gets between 70-100 requests a day. > Although it is a relatively simple matter to install > from > source on a freebsd or linux box, it would be nice if > one of the major linux distributions would include it > as a package. No doubt this would be a great way to > promote it. > best regards, > re-v There are licensing issues, starting from its Apple heritage, and apparently exasperated by the flirtation with Disney. See below. Art >> Squeak license to allow a third-party to accept indemnification, thus >> enabling Debian-style projects to incorporate squeak under a >> downstream license. We are not able to provide you with legal >> advice in this matter, but encourage you to contact your own legal >> counsel or your counterparts in the U.S." > >[...] >See http://minnow.cc.gatech.edu/squeak/501 >It seems Disney also has some code in Squeak, which might make it more >difficult. >It might be useful to contact the Squeak people. >Cheers, >Carl

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squeak "obsolete"
by mike re-v 16 Mar '04

16 Mar '04

Squeak, "an obsolete product", seems to have a robust developemnt community behind it. The squeak-dev mailing list gets between 70-100 requests a day. Although it is a relatively simple matter to install from source on a freebsd or linux box, it would be nice if one of the major linux distributions would include it as a package. No doubt this would be a great way to promote it. best regards, re-v __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam http://mail.yahoo.com

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FW: Answer from the Apples legal dept.
by Arthur 16 Mar '04

16 Mar '04

This, I think, is interesting - the debian education folks trying to determine what they can do with Squeak. I have called off my boys as to Squeak, now that it no longer associated with Disney - so wish them luck. Art -----Original Message----- From: Knut Yrvin [mailto:knuty@skolelinux.no] Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 4:59 AM To: debian-edu(a)lists.debian.org Subject: Fwd: Answer from the Apples legal dept. I'we got this from Apples legal department in Europe through our connections with the company in Norway. Our man in Norway asked if this is to live with? ---------- Videresendt melding ---------- Subject: Svar fra Apples legal dept. Date: tirsdag 16. mars 2004, 09:06 From: Jon Aalborg <aalborg.j(a)euro.apple.com> To: Knut Yrvin <knuty(a)skolelinux.no> [...] "Squeak is an obsolete product no longer under development by Apple, so it is not practical for us to re-examine or modify the licensing terms used by Squeak. However, the U.S. Squeak community is exploring the possibility of using the relicensing option in the Squeak license to allow a third-party to accept indemnification, thus enabling Debian-style projects to incorporate squeak under a downstream license. We are not able to provide you with legal advice in this matter, but encourage you to contact your own legal counsel or your counterparts in the U.S." [...] -- Regards/mvh, +-------------------------------------+-------------------------------- -+ | Apple, Norway | Phone Apple : +47 22 95 49 00 | | Jon Aalborg | Fax Apple : +47 22 95 49 01 | | Education Sales Manager | | | Lilleakerveien 10 | | www.apple.com/no/education | P.O. Box 244 Lilleaker, N-O216 OSLO | | | NORWAY | | Mail aalborg.j(a)euro.apple.com | +-------------------------------------+-------------------------------- -+ ------------------------------------------------------- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-edu-request(a)lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster(a)lists.debian.org

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Re: [Edu-sig] Remember when we were talking about simulating government?
by Laura Creighton 08 Mar '04

08 Mar '04

In a message of Sun, 22 Feb 2004 16:33:52 EST, Arthur writes: > >Laura writes - >> >> http://www.nationstates.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi > >What's the level of granularity? > >Can I outlaw the teaching of VB in public schools? ;) > >Particularly since having learned that VB is now only a bastard dialect o >f >C#. At least teach the C# in its more sensible form - if we need to go i >n >this direction. > >Art New issues are proposed by members. But there are half a million players now, so how to get your issue made into one that the every nation must vote on (or ignore) is complicated. I haven't figured it out yet. Laura

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