Mailman 3 November 2005 - Edu-sig

Re: [Edu-sig] [Pydotorg] Request to be unsubscribed (urnerk@qwest.net)
by Kirby Urner Nov. 28, 2005

Nov. 28, 2005

Thanks Neil. I'm pretty sure urnerk(a)qwest.net was the target. Definitely the webmaster list was a source. All quiet now (whew! -- what a relief). I'm unclear on the policies (whether a page maintainer needs to get webmaster email), but in any case, per recent threads on edu-sig(a)python.org, I'm interested in turning the job over to new talent. I advocate such turnover on principle -- preserves freshness, adds to community morale etc. Fewer opportunities to become entrenched = more opportunities for people to participate, try on different hats. I've also expressed my willingness to do the job again down the road -- but only after deserving others have had a chance to express their vision around this important topic: Python in Education. Kirby > -----Original Message----- > From: Neil Schemenauer [mailto:nas@arctrix.com] > Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2005 5:08 PM > To: Kirby Urner > Cc: postmaster(a)python.org > Subject: Re: [Pydotorg] Request to be unsubscribed (urnerk(a)qwest.net) > > On Sun, Nov 27, 2005 at 10:41:50AM -0800, Kirby Urner wrote: > > Note that edu-sig the mail list still has a moderator. My only role was > to > > administer the web page, i.e. the content of > > http://www.python.org/sigs/edu-sig/ -- you'll see my email address under > > 'Email Us' in the left margin. > > Were you getting spam via urnerk(a)python.org? Based on the logs, it > looks like not (or at least not a lot). You were, however, on the > webmaster(a)python.org alias list and that address was receiving a lot > of junk over the past few days. Today I had enough spare time to > improve the filtering so I think the torrent has stopped. > > In any case, you have been removed from the webmaster alias list. > Perhaps you wish to remain as the maintainer of the edu-sig page? I > don't think that job requires you to get webmaster mail. > > Neil

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Re: [Edu-sig] completing my tenure as edu-sig webmaster (until next time)
by Kirby Urner Nov. 27, 2005

Nov. 27, 2005

FYI this should be my final post to this thread. Sorry to be so verbose but I think edu-sig is a good place to archive the internal workings, given pydotorg is so difficult to use these days (owing to vast amounts of spam pouring over the floodgates). Kirby -----Original Message----- From: Kirby Urner [mailto:urnerk@qwest.net] Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2005 10:42 AM To: 'skip(a)pobox.com' Cc: 'postmaster(a)python.org' Subject: RE: [Pydotorg] Request to be unsubscribed (urnerk(a)qwest.net) Hi Skip. Spams appear to have abated, thanks to interventions on my behalf. Note that edu-sig the mail list still has a moderator. My only role was to administer the web page, i.e. the content of http://www.python.org/sigs/edu-sig/ -- you'll see my email address under 'Email Us' in the left margin. All that needs to happen is for another email address to appear, and for the new maintainer to have check-in privileges i.e. the power to directly modify that page (a power I somewhat lost in the move from CVS to SVN). That new email address could be yours, if Python in Education is something you're really interested in (I am, and continue to be). Another scenario would be for you to hold the position temporarily, while encouraging PSF or some other python.org management entity (pydotorg etc.) to recruit a new webmaster. Edu-sig would be a logical venue in which to recruit, IMO, but nets could be cast far and wide. Maybe attract some Very Big Name (VBN) to the job -- as long as it makes sense (e.g. the VBN actually knows some Python). Kirby > -----Original Message----- > From: skip(a)pobox.com [mailto:skip@pobox.com] > Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2005 7:28 AM > To: Kirby Urner > Cc: postmaster(a)python.org > Subject: Re: [Pydotorg] Request to be unsubscribed (urnerk(a)qwest.net) > > > Kirby> I believe administration of the pydotorg mail server by email > Kirby> command is impractical in this spam storm. > > I have a script I use that helps me rip through the moderation job very > quickly. Feel free to add me as a moderator for edu-sig (and send me the > moderator's password). Also, perhaps our spambayes database needs a few > more messages added to it. > > Skip

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Re: [Edu-sig] URNER (/sigs/edu-sig) signing off (temporary?)
by Kirby Urner Nov. 27, 2005

Nov. 27, 2005

I got a very polite note from someone who took me off the list, stopping the spam, which all the python.org webmasters are weathering bravely. It's not a big tragedy or dark moment that I'm working to turn over that page to another talented person. I thought I did an OK job, but by definition there're limits to my vision. I'm not apologizing for my style, but I'm certainly open to fresh views and approaches. So I encourage the edu-sig page to *continue* through a series of webmasters, on into the future, with no one person permanently entrenched. Not me, not anyone. That'd be my preference (not a command or anything). This is the same preference/advice I gave to BFI long ago, and bfi.org is looking very good these days. I think there's been quite a bit of turnover, which is as it should be. So again, no big deal that I'm choosing to move on. A sign of a mature python.org management, in my book. And yes, I'd gladly do the job again down the road, but not right away. Kirby 4D Studios > -----Original Message----- > From: Kirby Urner [mailto:urnerk@qwest.net] > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2005 11:49 AM > To: 'Kirby Urner'; 'edu-sig(a)python.org' > Cc: 'pydotorg(a)python.org' > Subject: RE: [Edu-sig] URNER (/sigs/edu-sig) signing off (temporary?) > > > Well, easier said than done. Upon posting last night's memo, I went to > the pydotorg web site and signed off. That forwarded something (I don't > think to me) for approval. In the meantime, the spams keep raining in. > > Kirby > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: edu-sig-bounces(a)python.org [mailto:edu-sig-bounces@python.org] On > > Behalf Of Kirby Urner > > Sent: Friday, November 25, 2005 11:18 PM > > To: edu-sig(a)python.org > > Cc: pydotorg(a)python.org > > Subject: [Edu-sig] URNER (/sigs/edu-sig) signing off (temporary?) > > > > MEMO > > Nov 25, 2005 > > > > FR: Kirby Urner, manager edu-sig web page > > TO: pydotorg (python.org web site management) > > RE: Turnover in edu-sig webmaster position > >

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URNER (/sigs/edu-sig) signing off (temporary?)
by Kirby Urner Nov. 26, 2005

Nov. 26, 2005

MEMO Nov 25, 2005 FR: Kirby Urner, manager edu-sig web page TO: pydotorg (python.org web site management) RE: Turnover in edu-sig webmaster position Some weeks ago I managed to rescue my page management powers, which had lapsed in the conversion from CVS to SVN. However, after much mucking about, it turned out I didn't have final check-in privileges (I could only post changes to an interim server), although some assurance was given that one day I would, once the new infrastructure was in place. In the meantime, I got over 5000 spam on pydotorg over Thanksgiving, maxing out my Qwest inbox in the time I was away. Given the tradeoff between not having real management powers in python.org, and getting 20-30 spam every hour or so, I've decided to hang up my tiny credential (manager of sigs/edu-sig -- just the page, not the mail list). I'd be happy to pick it up again someday if python.org managers decide they'd like me to. Anyway, I think it makes sense to keep rotating that position, i.e. keep passing the baton. That's how I set it up as first webmaster for BFI (bfi.org): keep some turnover in the webmaster position. Makes sense.

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question about livewires package. . .
by Andy Judkis Nov. 21, 2005

Nov. 21, 2005

Hello, I have a very nuts-and-bolts question for you folks. I have found that the Livewires graphics routines behave differently under Python 2.4.1 than they do under 2.2.3. Specifically, under the former, in IDLE, if I interactively run >>> from livewires import * >>> begin_graphics() >>> circle(100,100,50, filled=True) >>>circle(300,300,70) >>> end_graphics() then nothing shows up until I run end_graphics(). The circles then shows up for moment, just before the graphics window is destroyed. If I run the same sequence under 2.2.3, the each circle shows up immediately when the command is executed. This latter behavior is what I want -- is there a way to make it work that way under 2.4? (Why not just use 2.2? Because I'm also trying to work with RUR-PLE, which requires wxPython, and the versions of wxPython available on the web site are for 2.3 and 2.4. Perhaps it could all work with 2.2, but it would be nice not to have to experiment with all the permutations. And I really don't want to tell the kids "we have to use 2.2 for this but 2.4 for that", it really doesn't send the right message at this tender stage in their programming careers. . . better that they learn the bitter truth -after- they're hooked, eh?) Thanks, Andy Judkis Academy of Allied Health and Science Neptune, NJ

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First day of class
by Kirby Urner Nov. 18, 2005

Nov. 18, 2005

So we found our school on Google Earth, then I quickly sampled Celestia and Stellarium, while chatting up the open source model of application development (these latter two being good examples, plus they help with orientation (some kids still working on which way is 'North')). Every student has a computer and we went to hands-on with IDLE. The first we're doing is querying various objects as to their types, e.g. type(1), type('c'), type('cat'), type(10.1). I asked if they knew what type(-1) would be and this drew some derision, like we learned that in 6th grade. "So might I be permitted to say 'duh!'" Yeah, that was fine with them. Integer. Next time we meet, it'll be just about all hands-on, practically no lecturing. We'll be entering lists and dictionaries (good practice typing e.g. enter a list of the 9.5 planets [1]), and then invoking methods on 'em. The focus is "dot notation" as well as "data structures". We'll come back to defining our own objects later. Kirby PS: hey Art, I think our sparring on this list helped me focus my thinking around the charter school issue. You got me thinking about charters in more general terms. Here's a recent thread on the issue: http://mathforum.org/kb/message.jspa?messageID=4091763&tstart=0 [1] 9.5 planets a joke of course, but I did tell them this whole 'nine planets' thing is slated for the ash heap of history. Either we remove Pluto (which most people would rather keep), or we add some objects beyond Pluto. Either way, the outcome is no longer nine. I learned all this current info from the Vatican Observatory the other night, thought I'd pass it along to these public school kids (it's science, not catechism).

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Looking towards Pycon 2006
by Kirby Urner Nov. 15, 2005

Nov. 15, 2005

OK, so yes, my SIGCSE thing was rejected. In retrospect I shouldn't have fussed with that word counter (Word has one built in; in Vi/Vim you could just use wc in bash mode). I should have fleshed it all out verbosely in the submitted PDF, since the primary reason I was denied access (to would-be workshop attendees, laptops locked and loaded), was that reviewers didn't already know what this would be like (exactly what computer graphics? exactly what mathematics?). Now from my point of view, that's precisely *why* they might have invited me: to find out what. I feel that was a primary motivation for the 2005 EuroPython trip for example: frank curiosity, a willingness to give me a platform. These Texas people weren't even offering to be that generous. So maybe there's a *reason* the Scandinavians seem to know what's going on? Anyway... Sorry, I was starting to spiral out there for a sec. Back to the matter at hand, I'm heading into a 9 week commitment today, that'll give me lots of classroom time teaching Python. Since Thanksgiving comes next week, and kids have off, I'll just be in preview mode today, hitting the highlights, talking up the likely job-relevance of Python, among other things, even though these kids are still in 8th grade. Call it reassurance. A layer of mission critical Python apps have been and/or are being laid down even as we speak (in Zope & Plone world for one, but also in so many other walks of life). That's not the major reason to learn Python (i.e. is a reason to learn *any* language still in charge of vital machinery, including Mumps and FORTRAN -- the former being a factor in much of my hospital work), but it's still a reason. I'll also be sharing that O'Reilly wall poster chart showing the many interesting languages that company tracks, a time line designed to show influences and fork-offs, not just birth and/or death dates. Addendum: Conference organizers now have the option to solicit video clip samples, as a part of the standard speaker's application form, such that reviewers might not only look at PDFs, but could preview talent much as they do on American Idol, i.e. with a critical eye. Of course many speakers on these circuits are already superstars with cult followings, and have many slick samples ready to share. Others, like me, have relatively few tracks in the archive. Like, I have this one of me talking about the Bucky stuff, but Python is nowhere explicitly mentioned, except you'll think maybe some of the computer graphics might have Python behind them (and you'd be right about that): http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2137134480771470882 Kirby "Blog Man" Urner Current blogs: "Grain of Sand" "Bizmo Diaries" "Control Room" all @ Google's Blogspot.com

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Re: [Edu-sig] Introduction to Python tutorial wanted for PyCON
by Laura Creighton Nov. 13, 2005

Nov. 13, 2005

In a message of Wed, 09 Nov 2005 13:40:04 PST, w chun writes: >On 11/8/05, Laura Creighton <lac(a)strakt.com> wrote: >> http://mail.python.org/mailman/private/pycon-organizers/2005-November/0 >04356.html >> >> If they don't have one already, perhaps they have been asking in the >> wrong places. > > >hi laura, > >i have one and have delivered it at OSCON before, however, isn't it >odd to have an intro to Python tutorial at a PyCon conference? aren't >all attendees going to be those already familiar with Python? if i >were a complete newbie, i'm not sure a conference completely devoted >to a technical topic would be my 1st choice. But it mught be your bosses first choice to send you. Look at it the other way around. Assume you are desparate to learn the Python programming language, and you are not the sort of person who picks things up on your own. Where would you go? At last year's Europython, the section devoted to people who were either new to python, or Zope people who had never programmed before was really well attended. >if you still one is still valuable for PyCon, i'll consider it... i >just wouldn't want to see it cancelled due to lack of >interest/participation. > >just my $0.02, >-wesley Better talk to Jeff about this. I am just trying to get the word out. Laura

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Re: [Edu-sig] Class prep (Python A-Level, Winterhaven PPS)
by John Miller Nov. 13, 2005

Nov. 13, 2005

This is mainly for Kirby, in case it proves worthwhile: http://groups.google.com/group/turbogears/msg/280bd0a38dda5019 I follow the TurboGears group, and this message was recently posted: ''' Hey all, I've just committed a new version of The Zip Code Database Project on SourceForge. http://zips.sourceforge.net/ What is it? From the home page: "The Zip Code Database project exists to provide US Zip Codes in their entirety; latitude and longitude coordinates included! The download includes an SQL file to dump directly into your database. It currently works with MySQL, but it should be rather easy to port to another database." There is also a Python snippet on how to calculate distances. Just thought I'd give you all a heads up. A little over a year ago I almost purchased this data when I luckily stumbled upon census data that carries all this information. It's public domain so have all the fun you want with it. Jared ''' John Miller On Nov 9, 2005, at 6:00 AM, "Kirby Urner" <urnerk(a)qwest.net> wrote: > Stopped by to hand off some open source to my certified faculty > supervisor > at the PPS/PDX facility I'll be haunting, starting soon. He'd > requested a > GIS spin to the Python, which was fortuitous, given I'd done a gig > for good > geofolk at the DoubleTree earlier this year (just back from Pycon > in DC).[1] > > What I handed him was: > > (a) an HTMLParser subclass that screen scrapes some public info about > latitudes and longitudes of major US and Canadian cities [2] > > (b) the large data structure developed therefrom [3] > > (c) functions to compute rough distance in miles between any two > cities in > the cities dictionary (many alternatives viable) > > (d) a function to recast the cities dictionary as some vaguely > specified XML > (no schema), suitable for writing to a 'stream buffer' of some kind > (that's > more coffee talk than snake charming, but we aim to be inclusive). > <snip> > Kirby > > [1] http://mybizmo.blogspot.com/2005/03/python-for-gis-experts.html > > [2] blog entry re using HTMLParser for a different/related purpose: > http://worldgame.blogspot.com/2005/11/acting-locally.html > > [3] http://mail.python.org/pipermail/edu-sig/2005-October/005500.html > > [4] http://worldgame.blogspot.com/2005/10/saturday-academy.html

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ArsDigita U
by Arthur Nov. 12, 2005

Nov. 12, 2005

Probably an old story to some: Decided to take a look at the site of Neumont U, the big industry funded 2.5 year CS curriculum that Chick had visited and referenced. http://www.neumont.edu/ Which brought me to a reference to Eve Andersson, the chair of the BSCS Program http://www.neumont.edu/public/faculty/eve_andersson.htm Which mentions her as a co-founder of ArsDigita Corporation. Which brings me to this autobiographical article about the start-up and bust-up of ArsDigita by another of the co-founders, Philip Greenspun http://www.waxy.org/random/arsdigita/ which mentions ArsDigita's sponsorship of ArsDigita University "a tuition-free post-baccalaureate one-year computer science program" which brings me to the alumni site of the now defunct program, which makes the teaching materials developed by the faculty for the program available in various forms of media. http://www.aduni.org/ An interesting story, with a sad ending, IMO : Andersson at Neumont Art

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