Mailman 3 May 2006 - Edu-sig

Mindstorm NXT and Python ?
by francois schnell Sept. 13, 2006

Sept. 13, 2006

Hello, I've just read the open source move of Lego concerning it's new Mindstorm NXT: http://slashdot.org/articles/06/05/02/111245.shtml http://mindstorms.lego.com/press/2057/Open%20Source%20Announcement.aspx The firmware sources and blue tooth protocols will be available. :) This definitely interest me and I'll buy one as soon as available (in August). I didn't find anything about using Minstorms with Python yet but it looks like there'a a SDK for Microsoft Visual Studio Express with VB, C#, J#, C++: http://msdn.microsoft.com/coding4fun/lego/default.aspx Even if Iron Python is not integrated in Visual Studio (I believe), using the classes with IronPython shouldn't be a problem (I imagine). Anyway I'm not a fan of .Net/Mono and I'll probably try to explore other ways . I want to see what can be done with Python and this Mindstorms NXT in particular in an "educational/constructivist" context. If you know any projects already using Python and the actual Mindstorms I'm also interested or your thoughts on the subject. Thanks francois

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Accessibility to non CS types?
by kirby urner June 6, 2006

June 6, 2006

Given Python's original goal was to be friendly to techies who are not specifically computer scientists, I'm finding it telling how few physics majors get any exposure to the language, even today. Even though it's used a lot on the job in many walks of life (per success stories), I think we could do better. I'm not blaming Python per se, but I think the OO paradigm shift left many competent coders behind, still remembering a golden age when they were able to get work done using Fortran or Pascal. Now they open a tutorial or book on such as Python, and immediately feel lost. There's a lot of new jargon, and not many references to languages they already know. Where is "Python for Pascal programmers"? One might say this is only a generation gap and people new to coding are picking up the latest and greatest concepts. Unfortunately, I'm seeing a lot of evidence that this is not true, at least not outside of CS departments, because it's the older generation that's teaching the younger, and now that they've lost proficiency, they're making do with inappropriate and inadequate solutions a lot of the time. In sum, I think Python could be reaching more people than it is, including in its original target demographic (technical people needing an easy computer language). For more background, check out my latest blog post here: http://worldgame.blogspot.com/2006/05/coffee-shop-physics.html Kirby

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Elementary graphics library
by Johannes Woolard June 3, 2006

June 3, 2006

As part of my Summer of Code proposal, I said i would write a simple graphics library. I've spent the last couple of hours brainstorming this, and written it all up: http://crunchy.python-hosting.com/wiki/GraphicsDoc. If anyone has any comments/ideas I would love to hear them! Johannes -- Johannes Woolard, Oriel College, Oxford OX1 4EW 07837880296 ox extn: 26611

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Summary of Gnu Math project
by kirby urner May 31, 2006

May 31, 2006

Here's a pithy summary of the Gnu Math project, with an eye towards contextualizing my Pythonic Mathematics as one approach among several. http://mathforum.org/kb/thread.jspa?threadID=1390937 Kirby

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More OO chatter from the Edubuntu box
by kirby urner May 29, 2006

May 29, 2006

So I'm in my basement, vertically under mom's office, separated by a wall from the living room stereo, which is playing pirate music on the CD player (a local band). Amy and the girls are in the kitchen doing tie-die. My wife is in the hospital, with an expected discharge date of the day after tomorrow. I ferry people to and fro quite often (we just came from there). Yesterday the girls and I went to Lloyd Center (Nixon as VP: "America's answer to communism"), to view 'Over the Hedge', which I promptly reviewed in my blog. http://mybizmo.blogspot.com/2006/05/over-hedge-movie-review.html Last night, we projected 'March of the Penguins' (en version) using my small footprint projector, against the living room wall (the one above my head). I'd seen it before, but watched most of it again (it's a good story). I'm using Edubuntu on Derek's refurbished Compaq Deskpro, using a Buffalo game port to convert between ethernet and 801.11g. I have two access points in my house, although the second one is easily portable, as it takes IP over AC (any AC socket I plug the thing into is transformed into a wireless station). I speak of home architecture with a reason: 'The Sims' has kids in the mood to think like sociologist engineers, which adults always consider vaguely threatening at best (given the connotations of "social engineering" -- but what is "legislation" if not that?). Rather than fight giving them responsibilities, I want them to have really good tools and plenty of access to global data, so that their engineering might rock (vs. suck). That's a motivation for pushing OO into 8th grade: algebra alone just ain't good enough any more. By they time they reach college, teachers will assume already built-in Pythonic abilities, or something similar. This project, I take it, is consistent with the philosophy behind CP4E. What better way to make OO prevalent than to phase dot notation into algebra class? I think my Algebra City colleagues will approve. When I introduce OO in 8th grade, it's in terms of home blueprints (class definitions) sourcing home instances (actual boxes, the occasionial off-beat dome, scattered about town). You might instance the same blueprint in Hillsboro or Gresham I tell 'em (referencing locales they've likely heard of -- no Devonshire around here). I think using the home as a paradigm class is propitious, as there's lots of implied complexity, especially once HVAC and AC/DC become a focus (lots of APIs). You have the media room, the pantry, the scullery -- the whole pattern language of places. The Sims gives us visuals. OO gives us implementations. Another good thing about houses is they're in the middle in some way. They're child nodes in neighborhood systems, rural or urban, in some globalized humanity, plus they're parents to microbes, dust mites, all sorts of stuff zooming in. We're in that sweet spot between two alienating sizes: the too big and the too small for humans to feel comfortable in, other than indirectly, through instrumentation, libraries and so on. Humans like a scenario Universe, a world of storytelling, of soaps, of myth and history, of fact and fiction. Which is where movies like 'Over the Hedge' come in (or 'Toy Story' or 'Shrek'). They're works in the humanities, part of the main stream. We like to leave the more infra and ultra to the specialists, to the engineers. Also about houses: there's that excellent book wherein families have accepted an invitation to disgorge the contents of their homes for a photographer's compilation. -- a coffee table book showing houses + contents from around the world. I'd like to project these pictures in my Pythonic mathematics classes (seeking permission). In sum, although I'm aware that adults dislike being captured and modeled inside simulations sometimes, consider it patronizing to be "planned for", to have their environments changed around them, I think we all recognize that nature rearranges the scenery all the time (personal note: my dad was an urban, regional and education system planner). We adapt as a species, and what that feels like internally is some "government at work" (or some other cyberia (steering committee)). And we don't always feel good about all the changes (even if it tastes good, it might not be good for us) -- and we should by all means attend to these sensations, these intuitions. Like, don't ignore your own internal guidance system. On the contrary, that's what your democracy depends on. As an adaptable species, we're really *meant* to think hard about our choices. We really *do* have to work, even if we make it be playful. It's really not a free ride. Lots of very traditional theology could attach at this point I realize, but I'm just operating within my philosophy here, taking advantage of my 12 degrees of freedom. Our planet never just "settles down" -- hence the classic next program after "hello world" in many cases: "I'd like it to stop now, I'd like to get off." Or as Martin Heidegger might have put it: "how did it get to be runtime already?" Kirby

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Re: [Edu-sig] Accessibility to non CS types?
by kirby urner May 29, 2006

May 29, 2006

On 5/26/06, Ian Bicking <ianb(a)colorstudy.com> wrote: > kirby urner wrote: > > Not many scientists and engineers learn C or sh any more. ABC's > > developers had the right idea. > > Yes, but they learn C++ and Java and things like that. It's all part of > the Algol family, and that family has maintained a strong hold on the > mainstream of language syntax. > So you're saying Python is sufficiently accessible because we may still assume scientists and engineers are learning C++ and Java? The fact remains: many academics are throwing up their hands when encountering Python, because they can't make the leap from what they knew before. If my sources are to be believed that is: http://worldgame.blogspot.com/2006/05/coffee-shop-physics.html Kirby

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Re: [Edu-sig] Accessibility to non CS types?
by Peter Bowyer May 28, 2006

May 28, 2006

At 22:13 29/05/2006, Bill Bradley wrote: > Good gravy?! Where did you look? When I got my Physics > degree we not only had to take programming, but we built 68K > breadboard computers, programmed them in assembly (with a hex > keypad) and used them to read and drive ADC/DACs to output on > 'scopes. And no that was not during the Dark Ages, I got my degree > in the 90s. Round most of the physics departments in the UK, where course details were available to the public via their websites. Do check back - does your physics department still do it, or has it fallen by the wayside as students arrive knowing less physics, so more 'core' material has to be crammed into the 3 years of a Bachelor's degree? Peter

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list newbie
by Kris Olson May 28, 2006

May 28, 2006

Hello All I am new to teaching Python but have enjoyed the reaction of my students to Python. I have been using the interactive mode to demonstrate and as a tool to check their understanding. However, it is hard for them to see when I get down to the bottom of the page. Is there a way to clear the screen or open a new interactive screen? If not, it would be a useful tool to have. -- Kris Olson Geraldton Senior College Head of Business and Computing Area Curriculum Information Communication Technology Coordinator 08-9965-8443 (W) 041-792-4434 (M) 08-9965-0317 (H)

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Refocusing on Capabilities (was PySqueak)
by kirby urner May 27, 2006

May 27, 2006

Good thinking Paul, about the balance between optimism and skepticism. We do need to revisit old designs, and admit their weaknesses. USAers still seem in denial about their infrastructure. A lot of it's still good, but was meant to be maintained, not neglected. My hope is that infusions of data rich content will help people feel more in the driver's seat, in terms of at least tracking what's going on. Python-the-language is helping with this (at Google, other places). Then we'll need a lot more teams in the field, tackling specifics (again, the overview versus 1st person motif, familiar from war game simulations, and now I'm saying in world game as well). 2nd person enters with this sense of being on a team (we collaborate). Python has a role to play here as well. Perhaps we're somewhat off on a tangent in discussing simply the Dness of the thing (2D vs. 3D vs. 4D or whatever). Perhaps more to the point are the modes we access: (1) a creative brainstorming mode, more playful and open to novelty (2) a getting down to business, activist phase wherein we actually implement and make happen (3) an awareness-of-assets phase, an appreciation for what's already at our disposal, what's already invented and downloadable and so on. I summarize these as the BE, DO and HAVE modes or phases, and did an early collage about that under the heading of general systems theory (GST): http://www.grunch.net/synergetics/gst1.html In CS terms, we have design phase, coding phase, and legacy software and hardware. The legacy stuff needn't always be approached as burdensome though -- that's not the creative attitude. Good designs recycle and reuse, have a role for retro. FORTRAN still offers some dynamite libraries. We simply wrap them in our newer OO APIs. The strength of Open Source is we allow, encourage and foment copying, as the precursor to studying and improving. We celebrate the relevance of Having (over simply Being and Doing). Anyway, when it comes to Python in Education, I like to think of the ways in which Python might be able to amplify and improve one's experience in all three of these modes. Whether that involves 2D, 3D or whatever-D aesthetics is a somewhat orthogonal and I dare say somewhat irrelevant issue. We want to get work done, and so we need to play, we need to make happen, and we need to keep track and recycle. Python has those capabilities: it reads like pseudo-code and so is suggestive and encouraging of playful exploration; in production settings it generally does a reliable job of handling real world responsibilities. It may be in this last area (of Having) that Python is currently weakest. Like, Perl's CPAN is the stronger HAVE technology. But I'm not despairing. There's lots we can do ala the mythical Vaults of Parnassus, to keep our vast and growing inventory of assets accessible and relevant to future selves. Kirby

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new python // and /
by Andrew Harrington May 27, 2006

May 27, 2006

As I gear up to write or translate lessons for Crunchy Frog, I would like feedback on one general issue: // -- the new integer division operator. // is already legal in Python 2.4, though / still means the same thing for integers. That is to change in Python 2.5, that is already in alpha 2: / as integer division will able to be set to mean the old operator or always mean real division (I forget which is the default in 2.5). I think this is an excellent change in Python. I would encourage using // for integer division in all newly written lessons. There is the issue in 2.4 that you still have to go through an extra cast if you want real division, x = 5 y = 3 real_quotient = float(x)/y but there is nothing for that at the moment -- Andrew N. Harrington Computer Science Department Undergraduate Program Director Loyola University Chicago http://www.cs.luc.edu/~anh 512B Lewis Towers (office) Office Phone: 312-915-7982 Snail mail to Lewis Towers 416 Dept. Fax: 312-915-7998 820 North Michigan Avenue aharrin(a)luc.edu Chicago, Illinois 60611

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