Mailman 3 May 2006 - Edu-sig

Turtle.py patches accepted
by Vern Ceder May 18, 2006

May 18, 2006

This is just a quick notification that several patches to turtle.py (originally mentioned here right after PyCon) have been committed to the 2.5 alpha trunk. They were: * docstrings added to methods (Toby Donaldson) * added methods to control speed, window geometry and window title. (Vern Ceder) * added Turtle as alias for Pen - students can now create Turtle objects (Toby Donaldson) * default window now larger and centered (Vern Ceder) * added done() function to start main event loop after drawing (handy when running programs in IDLE) (Vern Ceder/Chris Smith) * fixed bug where filled polygons are always lowered (Atanas Radenski) * fixed bug in circle() method to use self._fullcircle / 4.0 instead of 90.0 to determine start (Chris Smith) * removed several redundant assignments (Chris Smith) * added second demo which uses new features (Gregor Lindl) Cheers, Vern Ceder -- This time for sure! -Bullwinkle J. Moose ----------------------------- Vern Ceder, Director of Technology Canterbury School, 3210 Smith Road, Ft Wayne, IN 46804 vceder(a)canterburyschool.org; 260-436-0746; FAX: 260-436-5137

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survey of languages final project
by Lloyd Hugh Allen May 15, 2006

May 15, 2006

I just finished teaching a semester high school course of survey of programming languages, intended for students who already had learned Java (a handful of whom sat for the Comp Sci AP this year). If I teach it again, I may reverse part of my sequence: First quarter: I taught Python using notes that had been translated from C to C++ to Java to Python along the years. Because the students had already seen the Java version of the lectures (their Java instructor got the original notes from the same C teacher that I did), we were able to plow through the equivalent of a year-long programming course in a little less than a semester, leaving some time for special Python constructions like lists, dictionaries, string libraries, tkinter, etc. Second quarter: language of their choice, with projects of their choosing (potentially with guidance); one student chose COBOL, several perl, a Ruby, an assembly, and a C#. Final project (which, in retrospect, would also have made a good intro): I gave them pysteroids, a pygame package, and they were to *make the asteroids either really fast or really slow; *make themselves invincible (without crashing the game -- some students learned quickly that having their health grow, perhaps through multiplication of the computed damage instead of subtraction, would make their health "too big" and crash the window); reverse the controls so that left goes right and right goes left; and do at least one other thing to dork around with the code. They were solidly engaged for 80 minutes, even after being graded on the assignment, and afterwards said that it was the best programming assignment they had received. In the future I would strongly consider starting out with this "final project." I was surprised by what some students came up with when I suggested that they do "at least one other thing" without specifying that other thing, and this also encouraged them to be original (rather than, say, copying their neighbor's code) and to give each other positive reinforcement. For context, this class is intended for magnet seniors (roughly 18 years old) in a combination traditional (neighborhood) and magnet school with a population of roughly 2000 students in Maryland. A magnet school draws students from around the district who have an interest in a particular field; in our case, they should be interested in math, science and/or computer science; and they are required to have passed Algebra I in middle school. I'm including this last paragraph purely for context, not for discussion per se. Thanks! -Lloyd Allen

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Google SoC mentors?
by Ian Bicking May 14, 2006

May 14, 2006

Are there other people here signed up to mentor for the Google Summer of Code? Last year PSF rejected a couple good education proposals for lack of an appropriate mentor. Already one of the proposals is for an IDE similar to what Andre has described (GUI not web). (If anyone is curious about it, I can email you the proposal off list.) -- Ian Bicking | ianb(a)colorstudy.com | http://blog.ianbicking.org

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Pythonic Mathematics (session four)
by kirby urner May 14, 2006

May 14, 2006

I had a successful breakthrough regarding my Saturday Academy class in Python Mathematics: use kepler.dodecahedron and plato.dodecahedron to show why dodecahedron alone is ambiguous and/or why a name collision might happen. That was part of a much longer thread on what I'm calling the four eras of computer programming: wild west (spaghetti code); civilized (structured programming); organic (OO); and managed (design patterns). As you may gather, I'm so far not blown away by the relevance of lambda calculus. One student asked how 3D Mandelbrot Sets were mathematically determined, given he understands the 2D case using the complex plane. I guessed using Quaternions but who wants to tell me for sure? My guess formed a good branching off point, in any case. I had 'em dive into VPython today, with just the API docs and a few pointers as I fumbled, beginner-like, in a projected IDLE session (later, I'd show them where to download a stash of canned VPython polyhedra -- a star student got it going in no time, started exploring my methods). Even the youngest had a space ship with two solar panels to show his mom when she came by to collect him. And my fractal guy, he had Saturn saved in planets.py, using a ring and a sphere object. We discovered how to do color, first by setting object.red object.green and object.blue (pause to re-explain RGB), then by setting object.color to color.somecolor (the visual.color module just has a very few -- I'd think they'd want more, especially given the lack of textures). I also downloaded, installed and booted up Panda3D on the Toshiba (my laptop on the projector). We started with Greeting Card then went exploring. One of the Panda demos quickly tosses out a 3D fractal tree with a few keyboard controls. All of these are Python programs, with the C++ API imported (I still haven't solved the dark matter problem, alluding to blog). So yes, we finally went graphical today, which was a big step. I also projected video.google of a fractal, me talking about domes, and Chieh doing one of his Tk-with-Python lectures. The technology is still a tad too low rez, so I can see where all that optical fiber might come in useful some day. We could watch Chieh in high rez and actually read what he's typing. I also shared a bit of Eskimo culture on You-tube. Last week, session three [*], was a lot of dense number theory with modulo operator, very left brain, nothing especially graphical. So I'm glad we got good and GUI today. I've been promising we would. Today I made good. Kirby [*] http://mathforum.org/kb/thread.jspa?threadID=1380445

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PySqueak: Which 3D package should I use?
by Paul D. Fernhout May 14, 2006

May 14, 2006

Well, I've finished a simple 2D proof of concept with prototype inheritance and some user interaction of dragging (using wx): http://svn.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.cgi/patapata/PataPata/proof_of_concept_0… (Just dragging five related squares around, but shows basic prototype ideas in a Pythonic? style, i.e. initially you drag a parent and children move, then you drag a child and it no longer tracks the parent x,y as it has a private copy of x and y after dragging.) So, now I'm thinking of making a simple 3D version. But what 3D library to use? This has been discussed here before, for example: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/edu-sig/2003-April/002789.html but I wanted a current perspective three years later (if it has changed). The (enviable) problem is that there is so much to choose from now! See this list for example: "A small collection (72 packages) of pointers to Python software for working in three dimensions" http://www.vrplumber.com/py3d.py Which should I use from all of those 72 packages? Obviously, that depends on my needs. In the past, we bundled our own 3D graphics engine (a 3D turtle) into what we wrote, but it does finally seem like 3D graphics are common place. So, I want to go with the best current standard, and that seems to be OpenGL. In the short term, for PataPata (my PySqueak) proof of concept tests, I just want something 3D-ish that I know other people will have an easy time installing alongside their regular Python 2.3/2.4 distribution. First, I just want to put up some 3D objects that people can drag around. That's fairly simple. But later, I want to pop up GUI elements (menus, lists, editors) to support people doing Self-like things. That's harder. So, here are the longer term needs: * Python bindings (obviously :-) * OpenGL based (to get hardware acceleration). * Good current level of support and longevity. * Easy installation and configuration on Mac OS X, Windows, and GNU/Linux. * Existing support for at least the rudiments of GUI widgets in the 3D. * Not a moving target. :-) [Though perhaps I could compromise on that point if it was very cool.] I'm OK with it being complex as I plan on hiding that. I already know 3D graphics, e.g. have written my own 3D turtle and learned 3D on the SGI, though that was all many years ago, but still, I'm rusty. License really doesn't matter to me as long as it is "free" in a FSF sense and can be in the "free" part of a Debian distribution. Being lazy, and short on time, it would also be nice if it already easily handled issues like managing a world of 3D objects and knowing which was clicked on (and where). Here is an overview of that issue: http://pivy.tammura.at/documentation/pycon That issue of easily displaying 3D objects and then mapping from mouse clicks back to what is clicked on are key to the application in the long term, if I were to emulate any of what Croquet can do. It would be superb if it had widgets with openGL (lists, text, etc.) with Python bindings. Even for that, using GLUT, there are a few choices on the vrplumber page above. I have not used any such packages. I don't want to emphasize that too much though. I'm OK with working with simpler components. So it doesn't have to have everything. And it is possible I might just punt on that for now and have a separate 2D GUI for that sort of stuff. If displaying 2D widgets in 3D makes the selection of 3D graphics packages harder, even though Squeak has it, I'm OK right now even with a compromise that the 3D environment might have "control panel" objects that when you got close and clicked on them you got a separate 2D window in wx or TK on your system where you could do the usual GUI things (with sliders, etc.). In general, right now I'm fine with having a system that mixes 2D and 3D windows for different activities, though I'm sure how to do that best may be an issue, and I can see the merit of having everything in 3D to make it easier to share visible state across multiple users. Anyway, I'm wondering if I should just go with PyOpenGL, or maybe the OpenGL Context, at the start, as being fairly easy to install with the least dependencies? (I already have that running on my Debian GNU/Linux machine, though with some issues.) But other choices like VTK as a base or maybe even using Blender somehow certainly look intriguing. And, looking through recent discussions, maybe I should look harder at Soya, at the very least to get a sense of how they used various technologies? http://home.gna.org/oomadness/en/soya/index.html (Looks like it is very Python oriented, but Tom Hoffman suggested it was a tougher install...) Still, there is so much to choose from. For example, "SLUT" addresses issues I'd have down the road with Croquet style networking: http://slut.sourceforge.net/ From there: "Slut is a programming framework for generative, synthetic, interactive, network-enabled graphics." And from: http://slut.sourceforge.net/manual/index.html "Knowing Slut means knowing Python, pyOpenGL, pyGame, Twisted and Slut itself. Python is the language. OpenGL is used to draw shapes. PyGame handles sound and the integration with the operating system. And Twisted does networking." But that seems like a small project. Anyway, what 3D toolkits have people here had success with from a painless installation standpoint on typical current machines? And which ones do people think are here to stay with significant support and would feel good about using? Is plain pyOpenGL or even pyGame a "safe" choice? So many difficult decisions; maybe I will just go back to expanding the 2D proof of concepts for a while... :-) --Paul Fernhout

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Setting a variable's value
by kirby urner May 11, 2006

May 11, 2006

> I don't believe in adding special notation specifically designed for > beginner's sake - even though I am dedicated in making Python as easy > to learn as possible. > > André > Right. Also, math notations which went to the trouble to be self-executing on a machine (like APL), in some sense deserve our respect for their precision and consistency. Maybe it's plain old, non-executing (dead) algebra that should change. Phase in Python notation much earlier and discuss the old pre-Python use of the assignment operator as "from a different namespace" (perhaps deprecated). Just because a bunch of oldies used typography the way they did, doesn't mean we have to warp everything we do in future to be backward compatible. I look at self-executing math notations as defining a cutting edge, not as poor imitators of some obsolote text book way of doing things. In fact, why do we teach "algebra" at all in the old fashioned sense? In my view, tackling this set of topics without a computer language is indefensible except in cases where some invading/conquering power has an agenda of keeping the kids dumb (in which case, the *real* schools have to go underground, as is happening in the USA). Kirby > > -Winston > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________________ > > winston wolff - (646) 827-2242 - http://www.stratolab.com > > learning by creating - video game courses for kids in new york > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Edu-sig mailing list > > Edu-sig(a)python.org > > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/edu-sig > > > _______________________________________________ > Edu-sig mailing list > Edu-sig(a)python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/edu-sig >

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Mirra 0.2.7, a 2D openGL python library with a focus on education
by francois schnell May 11, 2006

May 11, 2006

Hello, My aggregator brought me this from the cheeseshop. Examples look nice. http://cheeseshop.python.org/pypi/Mirra/0.2.7 francois --- Mirra is a 2D openGL python library. It defines a set of classes to render primitive shapes (Text, Pixel, Line, Circle, Rect, Bitmap, BitmaPolygon) and manages rendering and user input (mouse, keyboard, joystick). Mirra focuses on interaction and implements an event listener and classes that receive mouse events. (in a way like macromedia director or flash do). It runs using pygame(SDL) but it can also be used under wxPython. Mirra is also thought to teach students (basically design and multimedia students) programming in python by playing around with graphics. It includes an easy to use OpenSoundControl module. ---

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Setting a variable's value
by Winston Wolff May 11, 2006

May 11, 2006

I'm considering a proposal for Python 3000 and want to get some other opinions. I propose adding an alternative syntax for assigning a value to a variable so that the Python statement: a = 1 could also be written: a := 1 The reason is to help students who are familiar with the Algebraic meaning of "a = 1" (a is always equal to one) and get confused when the Python meaning of "a = 1" (put the value of one into the variable a). I teach middle and high-school students who are learning Algebra at the same time as Python, and it is very confusing to them when the same symbols mean two subtly different things. I would propose that the second syntax (a := 1), be available so that I could introduce that in the first semester course. Later, once they understood the meaning of "a := 1", they could switch the shorter syntax "a = 1". Any opinions? -Winston ______________________________________________________ winston wolff - (646) 827-2242 - http://www.stratolab.com learning by creating - video game courses for kids in new york

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A small module
by Nageshwar M May 11, 2006

May 11, 2006

Hello, I have written a small module called `curstat` for python. By using this module we can get process info, memory usage stats, systeminfo ,users currently logged in and their information in list format (works only on linux platform). You can get the package from here http://students.iiit.net/~nageshwar/rpms/ Thanks, Nageshwar M

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Difficulties in the Python-to-Java transition?
by Radenski, Atanas May 11, 2006

May 11, 2006

I am among those who advocate and actually use Python in introductory CS1-type of courses, and who use Java in more advanced CS-2 type of courses (at Chapman University, California). I have witnessed concerns of some instructors in other institutions that their students find the transition from Python to Java *difficult*. The smoothness of the Python-to-Java transition seems an important issue to me. The purpose of this message is to report my experience with the Python-to-Java transition, and to possibly learn more of other instructors' experiences. In the spring semester of 2006, an end-of-semester survey polled my students of their perception of Python, Java, and the transition from Python to Java. The surveyed students are from a CS2-Java class who has been preceded by a CS1-Python class. The survey shows that the transition from Python to Java has been smooth, and that students do like both Python and Java. Students credit highly Python as a language that has prepared them to manage and succeed with Java. Here are the principal results of my Spring 2006 end-of-semester survey. Allowed responses vary from 1 (strongly DISAGREE) to 5 (strongly AGREE). Average responses on a 1 to 5 scale are given below in brackets. (Q1) Your transition from Python to Java has been smooth. [ 4.0 ] (Q2) Your preliminary study of Python has helped you learn Java. [ 4.2 ] (Q3) You like Python [ 4.0 ] (Q4) You like Java [ 4.0 ] Survey results are published at http://studypack.com (main menu, left lower part of the home page). After two years of experience with this type of courses, my impression is that initially a few CS2-Java students feel they like Python better than Java. This bias disappears in the second half of the CS2-Java course. Students learn to appreciate and enjoy both languages. I conclusion, I have not faced difficulties in the Python-to-Java transition. Of course, different instructors may have different experiences. I would like to continue learning of other instructors' experiences with the transition from Python to compiled languages, such as Java. Respectfully, Atanas Radenski mailto:radenski@chapman.edu http://www.chapman.edu/~radenski/ There are wavelengths that people cannot see, there are sounds that people cannot hear, and may be computers have thought that people cannot think -- Richard Hamming

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