Mailman 3 March 2016 - Edu-sig

another test....
by kirby urner March 2, 2016

March 2, 2016

Here's another example of a post that failed to reach the archive, yet the one after it, senseless without this one, did. I've been polling a number of folks about their experience and the developing consensus is we're without a listowner at this time. My plan is to step forward with one or two others and offer to serve in that role. I haven't done that yet though. Still collecting data on the current (broken) situation. Kirby ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: kirby urner <kirby.urner(a)gmail.com> Date: Tue, Mar 1, 2016 at 6:57 PM Subject: Re: [Edu-sig] raging debates and the relevance of a real education To: Juliano <julianofischer(a)gmail.com> Cc: "edu-sig(a)python.org" <edu-sig(a)python.org> > What is your opinion? > Is FBI attacking the privacy of iphone users? > > I think a state government should not be banned from running businesses, applying its own decals and ideals, and that Uncle Sam Smartphones or whatever could be handed out, free of charge, to underprivileged, say through schools. They'll be FBI hackable but come with many other benefits only the US is in a position to deliver (a wide range of special apps). That doesn't really solve the current problems, but I do think patriots who want to make a statement of support, should be able to go to Walmart and buy whatever ideologically correct phone suits their persona. Sure, criminals will prefer privacy but then ordinary citizens have access to the same cryptographic techniques. That cat is well out of the bag. I'd like to see Uncle Sam with its own chain of roadside hotels, a rental car company, an airline. They'll have to be open source / open book so people see they're not cheating i.e. they have to turn a profit. They're role models, showing other capitalists how it's done. Those who always criticize the government for not understanding about business, will have less of an argument. I'm not talking about nationalizing all the existing companies or anything close. Just let Uncle Sam get into the phone business, if it takes issue with how Apple is doing it. Compete in the free market, but through coercive court orders. Kirby http://controlroom.blogspot.com/2011/05/cowardly-capitalism.html

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Re: [Edu-sig] raging debates and the relevance of a real education
by kirby urner March 2, 2016

March 2, 2016

> > What is your opinion? > Is FBI attacking the privacy of iphone users? > > I think a state government should not be banned from running businesses, applying its own decals and ideals, and that Uncle Sam Smartphones or whatever could be handed out, free of charge, to underprivileged, say through schools. They'll be FBI hackable but come with many other benefits only the US is in a position to deliver (a wide range of special apps). That doesn't really solve the current problems, but I do think patriots who want to make a statement of support, should be able to go to Walmart and buy whatever ideologically correct phone suits their persona. Sure, criminals will prefer privacy but then ordinary citizens have access to the same cryptographic techniques. That cat is well out of the bag. I'd like to see Uncle Sam with its own chain of roadside hotels, a rental car company, an airline. They'll have to be open source / open book so people see they're not cheating i.e. they have to turn a profit. They're role models, showing other capitalists how it's done. Those who always criticize the government for not understanding about business, will have less of an argument. I'm not talking about nationalizing all the existing companies or anything close. Just let Uncle Sam get into the phone business, if it takes issue with how Apple is doing it. Compete in the free market, but through coercive court orders. Kirby http://controlroom.blogspot.com/2011/05/cowardly-capitalism.html

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raging debates and the relevance of a real education
by kirby urner March 2, 2016

March 2, 2016

Students lucky enough to get exposure to RSA (the algorithm) along their math track are likely having more informed debates in their classrooms, regarding the Apple vs. FBI standoff. They're certainly better equipped, concept-wise, than less privileged kids who might not even get any SQL in all four years of high school (!). The first stories I saw were about how the run-of-the-mill techie saw no reason to weigh in i.e. why pick a side? Then came the heavy hitters like John McAffee and Gen. Hayden. An aspect of the story I see differently reported is: (A) when the passcode is miss-entered more than 10 times, the phone wipes away its data (99% of the stories put it this way) (B) the phone doesn't have to wipe anything except the decrypt bits, leaving the phone encrypted forever (1% put it this other way). [1] One might argue the difference between "erased" and "indecipherable" is negligible, but as we were discussing "mental models" earlier this month, I think it's an important distinction to make. The "erased" mental model leaves people understanding why the FBI couldn't get to the data in that case: it's gone. The "forever encrypted" mental model reminds people of something else: the data is still there, just the code in uncrackable. A lot of father-knows-best types (e.g. Cyrus Vance) would like the public to forget all about uncrackable codes. Were the algorithm in question RSA, we could say the phones owner needs the passcode to get access to d, the secret complement of N, the public key. [2] Even if I know my public key, forget about decryption of d is lost, and that's a lot longer than 6 digits. Getting the passcode right is merely giving d permission to do its work. I wonder how many evil sibs have deliberately miss-entered codes to forever lock the other's phone. That'd be akin to tossing it under a bus right? Tsk. [3] Kirby PS: I wonder who believes this paragraph (I don't): "It’s possible, of course, for authorities to physically open the phone, pull out the computer chips and bombard them with lasers or radio frequencies to get at the information they need. But experts aren’t sure how much — if any — data would be lost in the process." [4] Sounds like BS to me. [1] https://stratechery.com/2016/apple-versus-the-fbi-understanding-iphone-encr… [2] http://controlroom.blogspot.com/2006/05/rsa-using-pythonic-notation.html [3] http://forums.macrumors.com/threads/a-hack-to-find-my-sisters-password-for-… [4] http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2016/02/17/the-fbi-wants-to-set-a-leg…

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frustrations attempting to join edu-sig?
by kirby urner March 1, 2016

March 1, 2016

Do we have a listowner here? On the behest of this would-be poster I'm sharing about his attempt to join our discussions. Kirby FYI. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Aivar Annamaa <aivar.annamaa(a)ut.ee> Date: Thu, Feb 25, 2016 at 7:51 AM Subject: Writing to Python Edu-Sig mailing list To: kirby.urner(a)gmail.com Hi, Kirby! I noticed you are an active member in Python Edu-Sig mailing list. I joined the list and tried to write to it several times but seems that my letters are just vanishing. I also wrote to edu-sig-owner(a)python.org and wilson(a)visi.com (couple of weeks ago) but got no response. Could you please notify the right persons that there seems to be problem in accepting new members into the list? Maybe you can forward my letter to the list? In case you think my e-mails were discarded because they contained spam, here's what I wanted to discuss: * There's a Python type checker MyPy (http://mypy-lang.org/) based on PEP 484. I wanted to ask, whether someone has any experience in using type annotations in teaching Python. * I have created a Python IDE for beginners (http://thonny.cs.ut.ee/) and I believe people in this mailing list would be interested in it. best regards, Aivar Annamaa University of Tartu

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