Paul, no, I have not tried NumPy (Numerical Extensions To Python). The only Python (yet to be read) book that I own is Andre Lessa's "Python Developer's Handbook", 2001, SAMS. Lessa mentions briefly (p. 15, last paragraph) NumPy and again later (pp. 364-367). Lessa shows not a line of NumPy on those pages, although he gives URL's. Lessa fails to mention the connection to J, perhaps for fear of frightening us away. Calling Java::Python "JPython" further dooms J to anonymity. I.e., it leads one to think of "J" as implying Java. Likewise, the Evil Empire's J++ and J# products. Kirby is correct about the ability to write really weird looking code in J. (I assume that is what is meant by "J is maybe the most weird language I know"). Paul, thank you ... NumPy is now on my list of future investigations. regards, gerry "If your only tool is a hammer, all of your problems tend to look like nails". (author unknown) From: "Paul Barrett" <pebarrett@gmail.com> Sent: Saturday, February 25, 2006 12:18 PM Subject: Re: [Edu-sig] Textbooks The multidimensional array modules in their various incarnations, Numeric, Numarray and Numpy - with the Numpy being the latest and hopeful last - are based on J's array semantics and behaviour. So in some sense, you can teach J programming concepts by using Numpy. Have you you tried Numpy?