I've done a good job of explaining my program (P4E) on math-thinking-l recently, underused bandwidth, a convenient nexus, lots of good feedback. I'm reminding college minded professors that we don't have "computer science" in most schools, yet there's a hunger to learn skills. What I gathered from our meeting in London that time is students just boycott if it's not about learning computer skills i.e. you can't do "math for math's sake" (whatever that means). So that's why I'm calling it math. That's my only toe hold, in today's stripped down scene. Naturally, there's tremendous inertia, so it's falling to charters and various elite academies (like Saturday Academy), to serve as early adopters. Home schooling, or "self schooling" often plays a role. Kids learn after hours. My intent is to meet the early bird deadline for Pycon, like 48 hours or less, no secret this'll be a stretch given I'm splitting reimbursement, won't cover me, but that's my problem. Mom in hospital down in LA, with my sis (better by the day) etc. If there's any real opposition to the futurism I peddle, I haven't met it yet. There's inertia, doing the same things today we did yesterday, but that's different from "opposition". So from a marketing point of view, I'm feeling upbeat. Thinking people tip their hats. I'm a highly respected geek in this town. But does anyone get it about FOSS? This OS Bridge thing needs to be big, but a lot of Portlanders don't remember being called "an open source capital" by Christian Science Monitor in 1985. Understanding about FOSS takes a fairly high level of literacy (ongoing). Is that torch getting passed? In my view, coming from OSCON, the FOSS revolution has succeeded, but now there's this "so now what?" and it seems like there's a lot of waiting for answers. Students are anxious for stories, understandably. But our media (a primary source) is rather short on technical content, unless it's about money (economics). Everything else is fiction (cops, lawyers, doctors... all invented for TV). Even when I had ChoicePlus (no longer), there was precious little "geek TV" e.g. nothing about Python. Of course I know what you're thinking: YouTube, Vimeo, ShowMeDo. Yeah, very true. But that still leaves us locked out of the schools, in some "underground university" (like the sound of that -- reminds of Morlocks, very H.G. Wells). I've been explaining to my engineer friends how SQL isn't just about theory, Venn diagrams etc., it's about telling technical stories about how the world works, what's behind Fandango (ticket sales), the ATM machine on the corner. School has traditionally had this storytelling function where you give some insights into infrastructure. Then there's the amazing history: Hollerith, "keeping tabs", punch cards, IBM... it goes on. One of our number is Allen Taylor, author of 'SQL for Dummies', so safe to say I have a sympathetic audience. He was in my Python for Wanderers also. What's missing, when you drop out the technical stuff, is a coherent story about how stuff works, including some of the most awesome stories of humans working together, collaborating, working in teams (GNU, Linux...). As geeks, we have the same needs and rights as any subculture to tell our stories, share our lore. Ada, Hopper... and let's not forget The Turk. :) More recently: GNU, Linux, Mozilla, XO... (or meme pool, needs protecting through retelling). Anyway, these are the kinds of thoughts, beyond trying to sell my biggest client on moving beyond MUMPS (or at least doing something on the side). DemocracyLab is out with a new app engine, haven't had time to work with it yet. Speaking of app engines, I guess I already mentioned doing technical review for Dr. Chuck, working for O'Reilly. I get a name credit, plus I mentioned his title in my source code: osgarden.appspot.com More soon, Kirby