I wish there was less taking of offense on this list. Different people want to get different things. Kirby in particular is an "on the ground" type of contributor adding what he things is important. (I love his numericy pages, check them out.) This means he has well focused ideas he would like to see come out of this list and CP4E. He is apparently afraid that the grandious ideas will dilute the effort resulting in little accomplishment. On the other hand he is just one of many. For example I think he sets the goals too low and we have room to explore many approaches. However I fail to see why he shouldn't be allowed to present his opinion and try to convince the rest of us without everyone taking offense apparently merely because he disagrees with them. He and I have had occasion to disagree on several things so far. I don't have less respect for him because of it and I don't believe he has less respect for me or anyone else that disagrees with him. So what's the problem? This is a subject that is bound to have plenty of disagreement among intelligent people of good will. Lets please assume that each of us is one of these intelligent people of good will having these inevitable disagreements and chill out a little. Just a suggestion ;-)