I agree with these sentiments and am copying this message to the Edu and Tutor lists because I think the folks there are a good part of the demand that you mention below. --- Patrick K. O'Brien Orbtech "I am, therefore I think." -----Original Message----- From: idle-dev-admin@python.org [mailto:idle-dev-admin@python.org]On Behalf Of Tony J Ibbs (Tibs) Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2001 4:46 AM To: idle-dev@python.org Subject: [Idle-dev] IDLE "deemphasised"? Please not so... In Wesley Chun's thread on amending IDLE, Guido said:
The problem is that IDLE development has virtually come to a halt -- I just can't find the time to work on it, and there are other good development environments available.
Mats Wichmann then said:
As Guido knows, I'm certainly interested in IDLE evolving, because I find it a very handy learning tool - not just for me; like Wesley, I try to teach some Python classes from time to time. There may be "better" IDEs but I'm not convinced I've seen one yet (for Python). And in my particular situation, it HAS to be cross-platform, I'm not going to fuss with two different IDEs in a classroom situation (students get to choose Win2k or Linux).
But I suspect most "serious programmers" don't really see IDLE as being a "serious IDE" - at least I gather this impression from comments on c.l.p, esp. from folks who come from other (inferior?) languages where an IDE is essential to maintaining any sanity, so they've evolved into quite sophisticated tools. So I don't know if there'd be a whole lot of overall enthusiam for doing a lot to IDLE.
Whilst I understand all about not having time for things because there are other things to do (!), I do think it would be a pity if IDLE died away. It seems to me there is a serious place for a moderately decent editor that comes free with the Python disttribution, knows *about* Python, and uses Tkinter (i.e., is maximally portable). Whilst there might be *better* IDEs (in various senses of the word - heck, I use XEmacs for "normal" work, does that count?), there is *great* utility in having a reasonable editor that undestands Python up and running as soon as one has Python up and running (e.g., on Windows). After all, the alternative may well be Wordpad/Notepad. Other IDEs involve other work (to set up), or even money. And for some of us, each program coming in has to be paper-justified, so it may well not be worth the effort anyway, even for free code. If it helps, I'm satisfied with having an editor that understands Python layout, and provides some debugging and class browsing support - if that isn't a "proper" IDE I don't care (and I think I'm a moderately serious programmer - it's been what I get paid for for a while now). What do I actually want? Well, given Guido and co aren't going to do much with IDLE in the future, I'd vote to at least keep it around, and mention it as existing, and I'd hope that it might grow slowly via sourceforge. Just don't underestimate the demand for it. Tibs -- Tony J Ibbs (Tibs) http://www.tibsnjoan.co.uk/ "How fleeting are all human passions compared with the massive continuity of ducks." - Dorothy L. Sayers, "Gaudy Night" My views! Mine! Mine! (Unless Laser-Scan ask nicely to borrow them.) _______________________________________________ IDLE-dev mailing list IDLE-dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/idle-dev