Kirby writes -

I agree with Art that this really shouldn't have much to do with "newbies" (how to define? -- new to Python in particular, or to programming in general; I suppose the latter).

But there is another category. Take my PyGeo, for example. At the top level, there is a very limited API exposed to Python scripting. The point is to study geometry, using that API, via Python. In the context of a geometry class, no transfer of programming knowledge intended. Write this, expect that to appear. It is my job as the application writer to aniticipate my users ability to work within the API I define. Python is great, but not ideal, in that role. But I think it would be nuts for anything of substance to be sacrificed to make it more perfect in that limited role. My application. My problem. Obviously since I have written (in part) to it, I consider the API scripter to be a legitimate constituency for Python and for Python in education. But it is outside the realm of the P in CP4E - by my definition. Not a novice, not a newbie - I propose a new category for another legitimate constituency - the "scripter". Tremendous confusion has been caused, in my opinion, by not being explicit about defining constituencies. ART