so, why don't we look at computer science as a discipline of its own, teach it on its own, and then use it to enhance -other- subjects, not the other way around. maybe we'd get more people interested in computers early if it wasn't tied to acheievement in some other subject, so those who like it can be good at it instead of having to prove themselves at something they may not like first.
Andrew
I think a better solution is to make sure that no math barrier prerequistes get set up to prevent those eager to learn programming from getting into it. Your remark that your math skills have improved through programming is precisely the reason I advocate phasing in more programming, starting early, and not making it a matter of prerequisites. It's just that math courses are cram packed with stuff it makes sense to program around. So even IF the computer science or programming courses ARE offered separately down the hall, by other teachers, my sincere hope is that the math teachers don't sit on their hands and make do with mere calculators, while the real party passes them by. Math class should be fully endowed with high tech, not languish as a "calculator ghetto" while all the good stuff happens in other areas. Kirby
On 04 Jan 2001 11:04:56 -0800, Kirby Urner wrote:
It's just that math courses are cram packed with stuff it makes sense to program around. So even IF the computer science or programming courses ARE offered separately down the hall, by other teachers, my sincere hope is that the math teachers don't sit on their hands and make do with mere calculators, while the real party passes them by.
It doesn't "make sense" to program around math stuff to someone who finds math unpleasant to begin with. Instead, they associate programming with math and become convinced that programming is not for them either.
Math class should be fully endowed with high tech, not languish as a "calculator ghetto" while all the good stuff happens in other areas.
Graphing calculators are getting powerful enough to qualify as "good stuff", and they have the added advantage of being possible to use. Even in a compartively wealthy school district like Arlington, there is very limited opportunity for math classes to have access to computer labs. Graphing calculators, by contrast, are affordable. I'm not at all saying that we shouldn't advocate curriculum integration, but if we are serious about having an impact we need to have a real sense of the possible. jeff elkner yorktown high school arlington, va
It doesn't "make sense" to program around math stuff to someone who finds math unpleasant to begin with. Instead, they associate programming with math and become convinced that programming is not for them either.
Let me confirm that there is a difference between aptness for math and for programming! While I have a math degree, it became clear to me that I wasn't a math-head about halfway my second year in college. Around the same time it was also abundantly clear that I loved programming! :-) --Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)
Thus spake Guido van Rossum (guido@python.org):
It doesn't "make sense" to program around math stuff to someone who finds math unpleasant to begin with. Instead, they associate programming with math and become convinced that programming is not for them either.
Let me confirm that there is a difference between aptness for math and for programming! While I have a math degree, it became clear to me that I wasn't a math-head about halfway my second year in college. Around the same time it was also abundantly clear that I loved programming! :-)
Although I hadn't actually discovered an enthusiasm for programming (punching FORTRAN on cards by hand for an IBM 7094 and waiting 2 weeks for the output to be mailed back somehow put me off) I too was in my second year of a maths degree when I realised this was not for me... -- |Deryk Barker, Computer Science Dept. | Music does not have to be understood| |Camosun College, Victoria, BC, Canada| It has to be listened to. | |email: dbarker@camosun.bc.ca | | |phone: +1 250 370 4452 | Hermann Scherchen. |
~ It doesn't "make sense" to program around math stuff to someone who ~ finds math unpleasant to begin with. Instead, they associate ~ programming ~ with math and become convinced that programming is not for them either. ~ Forgive me for stating what (to me seems to be) the obvious. It just doesn't make sense to teach programming "without" math stuff. Sure the math aspect doesn't have to be emphasized, but i think that the more math that can be included (whether it's "sneaked" in by not calling it math), the better. I think that Joan's post on integrating computing with a government class illustrates this. All the examples that were cited by her involved math directly. Again, this doesn't mean that the mathematical aspect has to be front and center, but I think we should acknowledge that in a certain sense programming "is" math. just my $.0199999... ~c
participants (5)
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Charlie Derr -
Deryk Barker -
Guido van Rossum -
Jeffrey Elkner -
Kirby Urner