http://www.cs.utah.edu/plt/mailarch/plt-scheme-2000/msg00676.html Thought I would do a little google to test my theory about whether the TeachScheme guys feel abused. My intuition gets (another) A+ grade. Anybody can feel abused about anything. The question is to what extent they have a legimate case. You know my feelings. How do we go about being less subject to this kind of criticism, to the extent it is righteous criticism? It really is a question. In that I have no specific answers. """ You might want to compare the Python-in-education movement against the TeachScheme! project. Software vs vaporware; full programming environment vs low-level interaction; detailed curriculum vs ad hoc programming; intellectual depth vs shallow hacking; five years vs nothing but announcements. You can guess which one is which. And consider the harm done when people parrot the hype. """ Shriram Krishnamurthi
At 09:30 AM 7/18/2003 -0500, Arthur wrote:
""" You might want to compare the Python-in-education movement against the TeachScheme! project. Software vs vaporware; full programming environment vs low-level interaction; detailed curriculum vs ad hoc programming; intellectual depth vs shallow hacking; five years vs nothing but announcements.
You can guess which one is which. And consider the harm done when people parrot the hype. """ Shriram Krishnamurthi
Yeah, he's been the most vocal anti-Python exponent (we've corresponded in the past). My attitude is grow the pie -- programming in education means more room for all comers. I don't find the PLT Scheme "full programming environment" to be all that super advanced over whatever he means by "low-level interaction". Maybe he hasn't seen Patrick's namespace aware PyAlaMode. Kirby
I've just finished a long-overdue revamp of http://www.python.org/sigs/edu-sig I think it's more up to date and relevant to educators as a result. I'll expand it soon to include more links to code repositories such as Vaults, Useless and ActiveState's. Feedback welcome. Kirby
Hi Kirby, I know there have been more people posting their experiences, lesson plans, and tutorials for python in the classroom than are reflected on the Edu-sig site. Has anyone collected those, and if so, where can I find them. A friend is looking to put together a five-session (one hour per session) intro to Python, presumably at Oregon State since that's where he's doing his Ph.D. Any tips would be appreciated. Maybe I just didn't dig deep enough and it's staring me in the face? --Dethe
[Arthur]
http://www.cs.utah.edu/plt/mailarch/plt-scheme-2000/msg00676.html
Thought I would do a little google to test my theory about whether the TeachScheme guys feel abused.
My intuition gets (another) A+ grade.
The referenced msg appears to be 3 years old, and it's no secret they felt abused in 2000 -- CP4E was a hot topic, and at the time it appeared to be on track to get additional & significant funding.
Anybody can feel abused about anything.
People in the Scheme world specialize in it <wink>.
The question is to what extent they have a legimate case.
Guido made changes to his proposal based on Matthias's specific complaints at the time.
You know my feelings.
How do we go about being less subject to this kind of criticism, to the extent it is righteous criticism?
Are they still sniping at Python? Fine, if so and they enjoy that, but I haven't seen any of that lately. The only effect of this resurrection I've seen is that Kirby removed the link to TeachScheme from the Edu-SIG page. If that prevents someone from stumbling into TeachScheme who otherwise would have, I'd judge it a net loss. It's a wonderful project, even if it suffers from too much intellectual depth at the expense of shallow hacking <wink>.
At 09:39 PM 7/18/2003 -0400, Tim Peters wrote:
Are they still sniping at Python? Fine, if so and they enjoy that, but I haven't seen any of that lately. The only effect of this resurrection I've seen is that Kirby removed the link to TeachScheme from the Edu-SIG page. If that prevents someone from stumbling into TeachScheme who otherwise would have, I'd judge it a net loss. It's a wonderful project, even if it suffers from too much intellectual depth at the expense of shallow hacking <wink>.
Yeah, somewhat old news. Lots of languages should be able to make, or have already made, good inroads into the education sphere. I don't think an edu-sig page re Python should commit to providing such a global set of links. The Scheme link set a wrong precedent, the way I see it now. It's not a reflection of what I think about the program (I think highly of it). If someone else maintains a comprehensive Programming in Education page (across multiple languages), I could see linking to *that*. Kirby
participants (4)
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Arthur -
Dethe Elza -
Kirby Urner -
Tim Peters