Jason wrote:
2.2 Geometer' Sketch Pad Interactive geometry type applications.
What I am thinking of is the things which let you directly play hands on with lines and circles and develop a really intuitive feel for geometry. Sort of like these: http://www.maths.gla.ac.uk/~wws/cabripages/inversive/inversive0.html http://java.wiwi.uni-frankfurt.de:8080/java/owa/jr_qurres?>vappletno=3144 [Sorry cant find any more precise references right now]
How about it we took the concept further, were truly innovative and extended the concept to 3d. My precise references is http://www.python.org/sigs/edu-sig/ wherein is mentioned: PyGeo Dynamic geometry software in the tradition of Texas Instruments' Cabri Geometry II(TM) and The Geometer's Sketchpad from Key Curriculum Press, but extended to 3D - written in Python using the PyOpenGL and NumPy extensions. By Arthur Siegel. I keep vowing to myself to stay off the list, but this is too frustrating to let go. Withdrawn from the market do to lack of interest - for reasons I never understood. And then the concept mentioned on a EDU-SIG wishlist of things that sound great and nobody will every actually do - except that this one has actually been started in a significant way. Too frustrating. Oh well.... Actually have redone it as web-enabled Java. Cool stuff in my humble estimation for anybody interested in geometry, integrated with exposure to programming - the code is simple and explorable. The analytic geometry behind the code sometimes gets a bit hairy - but the link between analytic and synthetic geometry is now made direct and concrete through the code. Something only accomplishable through an opensource approach - which is why the approach leaves the commercial efforts in the dust, as a pedagogical tool. Don't know how to generate interest, though. Certainly never accomplished it here. ART
Don't know how to generate interest, though.
As I recall, my advice at the time was to do more on a website to show screen shots, discuss usage, deploy example lesson plans. And then focus a lot on geometry teachers, not Python programmers. Programmers tend to get fascinated by their own apps and may have lest interest than other audiences in being end-users of stuff already programmed (although in the case of PyGeo, I dare say serious Pythoneers would want to dissect it for more ideas about how to operate OpenGL from within Tk windows). I also hit you with some of my own prejudices about PyGeo, which were less relevant. What you'll find in geometry world, however, is decades of preconditioning which bias the K-12 field in favor of planar figures only. Getting spatial geometry of any kind into the curriculum is an uphill battle -- but well worth fighting I think. Still, you need to have a high tolerance for non-acceptance.
Certainly never accomplished it here.
ART
Agreed. Additionally, you got caught up in the meat grinder of ongoing version changes and the failure of some "add ons" to keep up. Is it possible that PyGeo is just ahead of its time? When 2.0 stablizes as a final, and the OpenGL add-on catches up, maybe that's when to pick up the thread? Maybe not -- perhaps other technologies more suitable. In any case, if nothing else, I think PyGeo proved a central tenet of this list, which is that Python is a great ladder into higher level programming for people relatively new to the discipline (which you've subsequently developed). You've made this point as well. Kirby
How about it we took the concept further, were truly innovative and extended the concept to 3d.
Yes I'd love to.. my idea for GeoLogo or PyTurtle as Kirby suggested is 3-D but based on Spherical algebra because I feel that the most global thing one can do for kids is give them great tools for understanding the geometry of the plant and system we travel in. The nice thing about spherical approach is that immediately all the orbital geometry and symmetries can come in to direct play. This connects implicitly to Bucky's theories but also extends to temporal understanding. Life as we know it almost entirely constructed from intermeshing of cyclic patterns and rhythms at all scales. Being able to program and construct programs in abstract simulator would offer a very rich basis for all the sciences. One can equally take a more generic Cartesian XYZ co-ordinate generic spatial approach. This could be equally fascinating and certainly plays into most contemporary 3D systems and most analytic geometry. I am of the more radical persuasion that spherical geometry is the basis of all else and comes first. It is the super set, and imho fundamentally more intuitive and should be one of the essential bases of any new literacy. Let's say the essential base elements in a new literacy are: string, sticks, pen, paper, balls, cubes, clocks and computers...
My precise references is http://www.python.org/sigs/edu-sig/ wherein is mentioned:
Alas I cannot get this link to follow through. Please can you provide an alternate or send me a version directly. I would like to see it very much. In the search for scriptable 3D engines with direct live interaction, I think the new version of 'Blender' has a tremendous amount to offer: http://www.blender.nl Because NaN and friends have already done a lot of the really painful work interfacing 3D APIs etc. There is intrinsic key framing of everything. It is based on 100% object-oriented design. You can use Python. It is free and cross platform [but not openSource]. Blender can import and export all kinds of models from a large library - this is good because one has the choice of objectifying or abstracting them. It provides an immediate platform for making very effective presentation 'movies'. These could be a direct tool for still illustration, animated films for CD-ROM, Internet or Video. The new 'game' version adds direct behaviors to scene graphs and their contents. Thus all kinds of mechanics are possible. And stuff looks really good. A growing and talented group of people to draw on already who might be very willing to help develop materials for such a project.
Actually have redone it as web-enabled Java. Cool stuff in my humble estimation for anybody interested in geometry, integrated with exposure to
Please, I would also like to see your Java examples.
programming - the code is simple and explorable. The analytic geometry behind the code sometimes gets a bit hairy - but the link between analytic and synthetic geometry is now made direct and concrete through the code. Something only accomplishable through an opensource approach - which is why the approach leaves the commercial efforts in the dust, as a pedagogical tool.
Sorry I don't quite follow your point here... Can you expand and compare for example to 'Mathematica'
Don't know how to generate interest, though. Certainly never accomplished it here.
<soapbox> ..#1: Don't give up - prepare the groundwork build better demos and protable support materials. These ideas are not going away, they are just arriving, even if for some it may seem like is already a very long time. [Look at solar energy or electric or hydrogen cell cars - you *know* it makes sense and the tide will turn] #2 We are talking about a 21 st century education. Each century has been very different from the ones before it. The 18th century saw the transfer from monastic-based tuition to broader literacy for privileged classes. The basic wide curriculum was started- classics, etc. The 19th century saw the beginning of much broader education and expanding curriculum and for wider class base. The 20th century implemented much of the really key idea - basic [public or private] school education and literacy for everyone, male or female, and created a global higher education infrastructure. Not 100% but revolutionary difference between in education in 1900 and today. Though granted there are still many Victorian elements left over.. But the 21st century has a 2 tools the others never had - Internet and affordable networked personal computers. As we know, this is still far from global but the trend is clear. If people in some necks of some woods don't believe a change is gonna come, in others such as Asia, and in Korea for certain, they are wasting not a single moment to take advantage. They are embracing Internet technology and now also openSource methodology [Micro$oft has been especially blind to other cultures] . But I don not know what new curriculum they consider is appropriate. I will be visiting Korea early next year and hope to follow up more on this. Thus any strong ideas need to be expressed lucidly in a globally accessible manner. On the internet and easily translatable.. using portable technology [Python is one v.good tool for this] </soapbox> - Jason
participants (3)
-
Arthur Siegel -
Jason Cunliffe -
Kirby Urner