Hi Kirby Thanks for your comments. "Kirby Urner" <urnerk@qwest.net> wrote

http://www.debreuil.com/docs/ch01_Intro.htm .. Thanks Jason. I've been exploring Flash 5 recently and the tutorial was useful, although I'm somewhat surprised it doesn't also use Flash movies to teach OO.

Yes I agree. There are other some tutorials out there that do some. http://www.moock.org/ http://www.moock.org/webdesign/flash/ http://www.moock.org/asdg/codedepot/ It would be very nice to see a good intro to OOP suitable for Python done in Flash graphics for example. Robin Debreuil's goal was really how do to use OOP to roll your own Flash. Robin Debreuil & co are the people who are increasingly by passing Flash's normal design interface. They are busy virtualizing the entire thing in code. It a bloody process, but I hpe the longer term results will go way beyond Macromedia empire and FLash as we know it.. Thye've come along way in the past year. 2002 is going to be very intense as they same people build and fuse event models, engines and socket servers of their own to override the default model as far as they can go. http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/flashcoders-wiki/http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/~ bhall/code/xmlnitro.as http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/ack/eventengine.php http://www.moock.org/unity/ http://www.natzke.com/ The deeper it goes, the more impressive is the effort, and the gerater the need/shame that Python is not there instead/also. It is facinating to see how Flash has developed and a vibrant openSource alter-ego. That seesm to be the real meme these days. .. meanwhile the player gets pushed onto more commercial devices: http://www.flashenabled.com/mobile/ which further motivates the alter-ego. A interesting case in point is the Sharp Zaurus, a linux based PDA [with micro keyboard]. http://developer.sharpsec.com/ It's a bold experiment to see how the openSource community can rise to the occasion. Trolltech have announced a comptetion as their QT windowing system runs on it. Qt has Python wrappers btw. http://www.thekompany.com/projects/pykde/ PDAs are cool I think ecause while still overpriced vanity gizmos, they are now teetering on the verge of greater embeded yechnolgy, and hopefully true usefullness ;-) At this juncture they reverse the trend for massively icnrasing RAM and isk pace which has egniifled softawer design. PDAs truly reward great software engineering: minimalism, footprint, portability, reusability, etc. And GUIs are the big test. There has been much topical debate on Flashcoders and elswewhere recently about compexity of OOP vs. real need vs. real use. Why OOP? Why build these big abstract constructs? Sometimes they seem to to take people further and furterh away from what hey aer really [originally] trying to do. they becom grails/goals + means in themselves. The answer seems to be that GUIs are where they are needed - the payoff. PythonCard - an contracting abtraction on top of an expanding abstraction. wxPython is massively generalized and meta-verbose. PythonCard steps up to bat and tries to make it more useful again by offering focus and simpification by understanding better the context in which these things are actually used.

Some of my very early forays: http://www.inetarena.com/~pdx4d/ocn/flash/reciprocal.html http://www.inetarena.com/~pdx4d/ocn/flash/group.html http://www.inetarena.com/~pdx4d/ocn/flash/sumtotients.html

Very nice. There was great space PBS series on TV years ago that used dynamic typography and presentation of equations like that. It covered Netwon's laws of motion etc.

In any case, I agree with you that Flash potentially provides a useful into to OO with immediate feedback/ applications. The downside is it's far from free (unlike Python) and the OO model is somewhat more complicated I think (Python's is actually more sophisticated, but conceals enough to make the basics easier -- or maybe I'm just biased, being new to the Flash paradigm).

Absolutely. I wish--wish there were a fgeat opensource Flash-like tool. Which could use scripting langauge of choice [Python, PHP, Javascript, REBOL ..]I think there will be. But I fear not very soon.. One can presently generate Flash SWF by raw scripting using MING [PHP, Python apis] http://opaque.net/ming/ And make-swf is a new one for REBOL :) http://sweb.cz/oliva.david/swf/ ASV is a famous tool for viewing Actionscript inside SF's for which one does not have the source .FLA http://www.buraks.com/asv/9.html flasm is a command line assembler/disassembler of flash actionscript bytecode: http://flasm.sourceforge.net/

The hardest parts of the tutorial are the special add-on functions the author has to introduce to make the Flash language itself a little easier to use i.e. he's using the language to complete the language (admittedly, lots of successful languages do this).

Yes true. I read that Robin is trying to improve those sections. There is forum about it and others have encouraged clarification there. I think it is partly a problem of explaining these things, partly that Actionscript has many flaws and is very young. Many have criticized Macromedia's programmers for not being open, rigorous or lucid enough. Others say it is mainly they are isolated by Macromedia marketing wonks brand of techno-politics. These critiques are naturally further strong arguments for why openSource, Python etc. ./Jason ______________________________________________ Jason Cunliffe [NOMADICS: Director art+design] tel/fax: +1 718 422-1078 jasonic@nomadics.org N 43:00.000' W 074:31.875' ALT:1144 ft 84 Henry Street #3C Brooklyn NY 11201 USA