From: "Roman Suzi" <rnd@onego.ru>

Well. I was asked to introduce myself and here is my informal self-introduction in the aspect of this SIG. As I hope to stay (at least lurk) here for long.

Hi Roman Thanks for the intro.. I hope you stick around. You seem to be grappling with familiar problems.

However, I was always interested in the teaching programming and it always intrigues me how one become a programmer. Yesterday you can't program, and today you feel, that you can!

I feel that several times every day! Seriously.

But one thing I am very strong about: if we need to teach somebody programming, the Python is the choice No. 1. (Well, probably it depends on the age. For little-ones Logo is probably the choice or some special adopted environment). But for those who want to learn programming Python is very-very useful.

We all agree Python is great andlove it. But I question anyone who implies xyz god/tool/method is the #1. Everything and everybody has a context, needs, a past, a present and future. This raises some interesing isseus about 'suitability' of programming languages for kids [we are all kids] and how to get them going... CASE STUDY: 12-year old want to learn 'programming' WHY: - He's curious - Wants to impress his friends - it's the new rock'n'roll - Dreams of controlling everything in his home with wireless magic embdeded cyberware - Likes Flash animations/games and computer games and would like to 'program' some of his own - He's surrounded by a culture of MegaBudget 'computer' graphics Hollywood movies, and dreams of making a succesful career as independent computer whiz, and at the same time showing anyone [teachers especially] who ever doubted him: "See how smart I really was/am/will_be ?!" My nephew is 12 and really keen to get started on programming. His parents and school know next to nothign about any of this. So he's own except for the beautiful deep ocean of the Internet. I wanted to say PythonPythonPython to him, but he already had eyes for REALBasic [he hs an iMac since 1 year]. Last summer he asked me what I thought he should learn and what I thought about REALBasic. I said something to the effect of: "Languages and technologies come and go. 50% of why you select XYZ should be based on the vitality and quality if its community. Pay attention to the age of something. If it is dying..probably best not to invest much effort unless you are very confident. If it is too young, this is exciting but 'bleeding edge' is also very time consuming and can be frustrating to get things done. For beginners, best to find something which has been around for some time, is well supported and still very much growing. Like a healthy mature fruit tree..etc" Then we went on the web together and browsed around the REALBasic sites, looking at list archives, contributions, reviews etc. I showed them that the first thing you have want to know whenever you read a nice review is the truth behind it. So we looked at the mailing list. We scanned the subject headers tree to get a feel for what kind of dialogue, what depth of detail and support, what kind of problems people were having, and if they were gettign satisfactory answers. Look at some contributions. Anywy , after looking at REALBasic for a while, I came away pretty impressed. I said: "Yes this is not a bad place to start. Looks like fun. What you will learn here will be helpful. Later you will probably want to explore other types of programming and langauges. The most importnat thing is how to describe what you want, naming things, how to analyze problems, and match that with whatever tools you have. Know your tools and how to pick them and combine them well." The langauge environemnts I recommended were ActionScript in Flash5 [he's keen on Flash] , Lego Mindstorms [he's loves the idea of robotics], and of course Python. An important issues here is also that REALBasic is something he found out about for himself, and wants to try. This proabably comes from reading some enthusiatic reviews in a Macintosh Magazine. I showed him Jasonic Trick #T for quickly assessing any technology: http://www.google.com search for trouble <name of your perfect technology here> for example: trouble RealBasic or trouble Python or trouble outlook Try again with similar keys like "troubleshooting", 'Help!" I suggested wait a year till ActionScript has stabilized and the books and How-Tos are avaiable. [Summer 2001 this is now true. The new OReilly book *just* published. See some samples quotes at end of this email. I think Colin Moock writes a great introduction to programming. What do you think ..?] Lego Mindstorms is very cool but probably best tackled after getting comfortable with other prgoramming liek REALBasic or Python. He asked me what's Python. So we looked at Python together - in Pythonwin, and browsed online etc. I could see he was not ready for it and I was afraid I was going to lose him fast... All that Unix culture oozing through the cracks, mysterious intros that mention environment variables withuot explaing what the fuck they are and how to set them, dubious Mac support [getting better again with MacOSX coudl be much more Python friendly] no simple one-click executables without diving through lots in clever READMEs. This kids wants to progam something and end up with soemthnig which will work. A single binary object he can put on his desktop, a disk or email to friend, show his doubting teachers. Python does not encourage this, though it is becoming more and more possible. If it were bundled and installed everywhere on all systems, life would be different [and better]. Yes it is usually easy to download and install when you know how, but CP4E needs to figure the distribution politics better. ============================================================================

(It's hard to switch from it to other languages, though ;-) But in schools we do not need to prepare programmers. It's all about development in the minds...

Yes

In today's school we are drifting more and more toward "user skills" (worsprocessing and such mouse-moving behaviour). This is what bothers me too, as I think those who is capable of programming need to have tools to learn and get successful results. This raises their IQ ;-) and improves understanding of life, whereever they will work.

Yes.

Still I do not see what can be done to the situation except with promoting Python to the advanced users and teachers. Unfortunately, I am no more in position where I can influence this process here (I worked in the teacher's retraining institute's IT center), so probably my presence here will not be too visible (I do not have much time to do something real, usually I just generate lots of ideas ;-)

Well I believe Kirby's curriculum strategy is an essential step. http://www.inetarena.com/~pdx4d/ocn/ Even if everyone got hit by a very special RCrumb meatball today or next Tuesday, and said "OK! Wow - Let's start using nothing but Python for all our teaching from now on" Then they would have job #1 - figuring out how what and when and lack of curriculum. Countries who have embraced Linux as national OS policy and have ambitious plans active for computer education and network infsractucture are likely to be the move Python in the classrom from enlightened experiment to reality. South Korea for example.

(I am also a participant of Seul/EDU (Simple End User Linux, educational aspect. Python Edu-SIG /\ Seul-EDU != [].

And a moderator of relcom.education newsgroup.

Don't follow that. Thanks I'll look

So, if there are some need to communicate some ideas/offers/questions/queries with the later, you can ask me. I will try to translate it into Russian and put it into there.

Great.

In fact, in the near future I want to prepare an "advertizement" of Python (and free software) for relcom.education. That is why I also want to listen here.

cheers ./Jason REFERENCE READING for REALBasic and Actionscript ============================================================================ http://www.realbasic.com/ REALbasic : The Definitive Guide by Matt Neuburg Paperback - 660 pages 1 Ed edition (October 1999) O'Reilly & Associates; ISBN: 1565926579 http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1565926579/ref%3Dpd%5Fsim%5Felt%5Fl1/ 107-4909741-5694943 ============================================================================ http://www.moock.org/asdg/ sample chapters: What do you think of this as style/content for beginners? <quote> Chapter 1 - A Gentle Introduction for Non-Programmers I'm going to teach you to talk to Flash. Not just to program Flash but to say things to it and to listen to what it has to say in return. This is not a metaphor or simply a rhetorical device. It's a philosophical approach to programming. Programming languages are used to send information to and receive information from computers. They are collections of vocabulary and grammar used to communicate, just like human languages. Using a programming language we tell a computer what to do or ask it for information. It listens, tries to perform the requested actions, and gives responses. So while you may think you are reading this book in order to "learn to program" you are actually learning to communicate with Flash. But of course, Flash doesn't speak English, French, German, or Cantonese. Flash's native language is ActionScript, and you're going to learn to speak it. Learning to speak a computer language is sometimes considered synonymous with learning to program. But there is more to programming than learning a language's syntax. What would it be like if Flash could speak English-if we didn't need to learn ActionScript in order to communicate with it? What would happen if we were to say, "Flash, make a ball bounce around the screen?" Flash couldn't fulfill our request because it doesn't know what a "ball" is. Okay, okay, that's just a matter of semantics. What Flash expects us to describe is the objects in the world it knows: movie clips, buttons, frames, etc. So, let's rephrase our request in terms Flash recognizes and see what happens: "Flash, make the movie clip named ball_one bounce around the screen." Flash still can't fulfill our request without more information. How big should the ball be? Where should it be placed? In which direction should it begin travelling? How fast should it go? Around which part of the screen should it bounce? For how long? In two dimensions or three? Hmm...we weren't expecting all these questions. In reality, Flash doesn't ask us these questions. Instead, when Flash can't understand us, it just doesn't do what we want it to, or it yields an error message. For now, we'll pretend Flash asked us for more explicit instructions, and reformulate our request as a series of steps. 1. A ball is a circular movie clip symbol named ball. 2. A square is a four-sided movie clip symbol named square. 3. Make a new green ball 50 pixels in diameter. 4. Call the new ball ball_one. 5. Make a new black square 300 pixels wide and place it in the middle of the Stage. 6. Place ball_one somewhere on top of the square. 7. Move ball_one in a random direction at 75 pixels per second. 8. If ball_one hits one of the sides of the square, make it bounce. 9. Do this until I tell you to stop. Even though we gave our instructions in English, we still had to work through all the logic that governs our bouncing ball in order for Flash to understand us. Obviously there's more to programming than merely the syntax of programming languages. Just as in English, knowing lots of words doesn't necessarily mean you're a great communicator. Our hypothetical English-speaking-Flash example exposes four important aspects of programming: · No matter what the language, the art of programming lies in the formulation of logical steps. · Before you try to say something in a computer language, it usually helps to say it in English. · A conversation in one language translated into a different language is still made up of the same basic statements. · Computers aren't very good at making assumptions. They also have a very limited vocabulary. Most programming has nothing to do with writing code. Before you write even a single line of ActionScript, think through exactly what you want to do and write out your system's functionality as a flowchart or a blueprint. Once your program has been described sufficiently at the conceptual level, you can translate it into ActionScript. In programming-as in love, politics, and business-effective communication is the key to success. For Flash to understand your ActionScript, you have to get your syntax absolutely correct down to the last quote, equal sign, and semicolon. And to assure that Flash knows what you're talking about, you must only refer to the world it knows in terms it recognizes. What may be obvious to you is not obvious to a computer. Think of programming a computer like talking to a child: take nothing for granted, be explicit in every detail, and list every step that's necessary to complete a task. But remember that unlike children, Flash will do precisely what you tell it to do and nothing that you don't tell it do. Some Basic Phrases On the first day of any language school you'd expect to learn a few basic phrases ("Good day," "How are you," etc). Even if you're just memorizing a phrase and don't know what each word means, you can learn the effect of the phrase and can repeat it to produce that effect. Then, once you've learned the rules of grammar, expanded your vocabulary, and used the words from your memorized phrases in multiple contexts, you can reassess your early phrases and understand them in a richer way. The rest of this chapter will be much like that first day of language school-you'll see bits and pieces of code, and you'll be introduced to some fundamental programming grammar. The rest of the book will build on that foundation. You may want to come back to this chapter when you've finished the book to see just how far you've traveled. <quote> ...fast forward to ... excerpt from chapter sample online at: <quote> The "Objectness" of Movie Clips As of Flash 5, movie clips can be manipulated like the objects we learned about in Chapter 12, Objects and Classes. We may retrieve and set the properties of a clip, and we may invoke built-in or custom methods on a clip. Unlike other objects, an operation performed on a clip may have a visible or audible result in the Player. Movie clips are not truly a type of object; there is no MovieClip class or constructor, nor can we use an object literal to instantiate a movie clip in our code. So what, then, are movie clips if not objects? They are members of their very own object-like datatype, called movieclip (we can prove it by executing typeof on a movie clip, which returns the string "movieclip"). The main difference between movie clips and true objects is how they are allocated (created) and deallocated (disposed of, or freed). For details, see Chapter 15, Advanced Topics. Despite this technicality, however, we nearly always treat movie clips exactly like objects. So how does the "objectness" of movie clips affect our use of them in ActionScript? Most notably, it dictates the way we control clips and examine their properties. Movie clips can be controlled directly through built-in methods. For example: eyes.play( ); We can retrieve and set a movie clip's properties using the dot operator, just as we would access the properties of any object: ball._xscale = 90; var radius = ball._width / 2; A variable in a movie clip is simply a property of that clip, and we can use the dot operator to set and retrieve variable values: myClip.myVariable = 14; x = myClip.myVariable; Submovie clips can be treated as object properties of their parent movie clips. We therefore use the dot operator to access "nested" clips: clipA.clipB.clipC.play( ); and we use the reserved _ parent property to refer to the clip containing the current clip: _ parent.clipC.play( ); Treating clips as objects affords us all the luxuries of convenient syntax and flexible playback control. But our use of clips as objects also lets us manage clips as data; we can store a movie clip in an array element or a variable and even pass a clip reference to a function as an argument! Here, for example, is a function that moves a clip to a particular location on the screen: function moveClip (clip, x, y) { clip._x = x; clip._y = y; } moveClip(ball, 14, 399); Throughout the rest of this chapter, we'll learn the specifics of referencing, controlling, and manipulating movie clips as data objects. </quote> ============================================================================ ___________________________________________________________ Jason CUNLIFFE = NOMADICS['Interactive Art and Technology']