Re: [Edu-sig] [python-advocacy] education as Python killer app
In a message of Sat, 26 May 2007 03:46:25 CDT, Jeff Rush writes:
http://wiki.python.org/moin/Advocacy/ProgrammingForNewprogrammers
I call that group "new programmers" - somehow calling them normal or average folk seems mildly insulting to someone, and calling them "non-programmers" isn't accurate if our goal is to teach them programming, albeit non-vocational style. "Non-professional programmers"? "Typical" people? "Making People Programming-Literate"?
-Jeff
Dorai Thodla suggests 'beginners'. And perhaps that would work. But my initial reaction was negative. It may simply be that I find the labelling of people that distasteful. In my world, labelling is well-associated with building rigid and discriminatory class structures,though 'beginner' seems relatively free of this particular poison. But that may be its own rub. 'Beginner' is a stage which one goes through on the way to something else, while I think that Jeff is looking for something that could well be permanent -- what Anna Martelli Ravenscroft called (calls?) 'for the rest of us'. She too was stuck on the 'but what would I do with it' question. The thing is that this sort of thing seems to be orthagonal to becoming a professional programmer. I know some professional programmers who don't think that programming is fun. They only do it for work, when they are paid for it. (Admittedly, they don't use python). So they don't have a box of helpful programs they have written over time to automate some tedium out of their lives, even though they are well equipped with the skills to do so. But most of us have these quick hacks lying all around. And they are the sort of thing that could appeal to professional programmers and non-programmers alike, because they solve the sort of probelms that everybody has, not the sort that only professional software developers call 'work'. Laura
But that may be its own rub. 'Beginner' is a stage which one goes through on the way to something else, while I think that Jeff is looking for something that could well be permanent -- what Anna Martelli Ravenscroft called (calls?) 'for the rest of us'. She too was stuck on the 'but what would I do with it' question.
I use the word "tourist" a lot, and I think computer world is so huge that we're all tourists in big parts of it, when we wander far afield (to be encouraged -- changes are we bring back new insights, or maybe even move the home office). A tourist in Python Nation might be a high mucky muck in the Republic of Perl (they actually have their own names for these things). Probably another reason I like "tourist" is that one generally treats them well, offers guidebooks, guides, opportunities for recreation and entertainment. We know that tourists are somewhat out of their depth and don't hold it against 'em. However, I also use "gnubee" (aka "newbie") because of the "gnu" inflection mixed with the "busy bee" connotation -- plus bees are cross-pollinators, wanderers, another big meme with me... Science would be ruined if it were to withdraw entirely into narrowly defined specialties. The rare scholars who are wanderers-by-choice are essential to the intellectual welfare of the settled disciplines -- Benoit Mandelbrot You can maybe see the "wanderer = tourist" equation lurking in the above. And when you're not a tourist anymore, what are you? Maybe a neighbor, a local, or "on staff" in some way -- different terms apply, depending on the namespace. I've you're a master of Python, you might be a snake charmer in my book. Kirby
I'm obviously a tourist in the English language this AM. Let me elaborate slightly while fixing a few typos:
I use the word "tourist" a lot, and I think computer world is so huge that we're all tourists in big parts of it, when we wander far afield (to be encouraged -- changes are we bring back new insights, or maybe even move the home office).
"-- chances are..." There's a lot of security in having a job title and a place in some pecking order sometimes, and tourists, especially if traveling alone, have to put up with being "incognito" for long spells. Yet this ability to become humble without suffering humiliation, mortal without becoming mortified, is a key to restarting one's career and/or moving into a new space, new skills. A little humiliation and mortification is even OK -- goes with being a tourist. I've always felt that computer skills in themselves promote a kind of tourism, in that people in so many walkx of life need their computers programmed. Looking back on a long career, it's amazing where I've been tasked to write code, including in the Kingdom of Bhutan, where I also taught generic xBase skills (another language I use a lot, originally marketed as dBase).
A tourist in Python Nation might be a high mucky muck in the Republic of Perl (they actually have their own names for these things).
"Monks" are pretty high level right?
Science would be ruined if it were to withdraw entirely into narrowly defined specialties. The rare scholars who are wanderers-by-choice are essential to the intellectual welfare of the settled disciplines
-- Benoit Mandelbrot
See: wwwanderers.org
apply, depending on the namespace. I've you're a master of Python, you might be a snake charmer in my book.
Kirby
"IF you're a master..." blah blah. Kirby
participants (2)
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kirby urner -
Laura Creighton