In the same way that Python programmers like to compare python to other languages in sheer line count of code (see the page bottom of this example from Peter Norvig), I like to compare the first three or four chapters of beginning programming books about Python to beginning books for other languages. I remember finding a big pile of C++ "introductory" books in our schools storage room. After asking around I found out the school actually had a programming class in the past that "just didn't catch on". Looking at those texts, I can see why.... Luckily, enough time has passes that no students now remember that C++ class anymore. I have more of a "blank slate" to introduce to Python and IDLE. Richard ----- Original Message ---- From: kirby urner <kirby.urner@gmail.com> ========snip snip===================== What's cool about IDLE is you're free to interact with the low level components without going to all the work of writing a structured program. The immediacy of the shell is what throws students for a loop sometimes -- they're not used to prodding and poking at this low a level, still think you "have to write programs" in order to explore string.... ========snip snip================== ____________________________________________________________________________________ Building a website is a piece of cake. Yahoo! Small Business gives you all the tools to get online. http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/webhosting