Re: [Edu-sig] Politics and Python in Education (meta on list charter)
At 17:13 21/07/2007, kirby urner wrote:
The only problem I see in terms of reducing Kirby's "dominance" (measured as "relative frequency of posts"?), is I'm one of those actively teaching Python in a classroom setting.
I think frequency and length are a good measure of dominance. Because it comes across like Kirby's or Paul's Journal - it's not often asking for input or in response to others' questions, it's information from you being shared. There's valuable information there, but it's not fitting for an email list. I mean 19kb Paul in response to my post!
This idea that I'm just sitting back in an armchair, pontificating and theorizing, might fit some other subscribers here, but not me.
In Portland, Oregon, we actually teach mathematics using Python. That's just the reality on the ground. I use edu-sig to file notes on how we're doing that, helping to spread competence to other gnu math teachers out there (a growing army).
But is that edu-sig's role? I'd say no - that's something for your own website/blog to fulfill, not a general discussion list. I'd certainly not want you to never provide feedback, but give us brief updates on what you're finding works every so often and let us read it on your site if we choose. It comes back to whether the list is viewed as information dissemination or a community. I would strongly argue for the latter, as the former can be done by individuals. Dominance by a few people doesn't build for an open community either, or even community.
I'm also a busy professional, a DBA for a team of eminent heart surgeons, with clinical data going back to the 1960s (among other hats that I wear).
I have great respect for the amount you manage to do, one day I may reach this level of productivity! In the end it's up to the list mom (an invention sorely missed these days) to say what we can and cannot do. I mean no disrespect to your work by these postings Kirby. Regards, Peter
On 7/22/07, Peter Bowyer <peter@mapledesign.co.uk> wrote:
I think frequency and length are a good measure of dominance.
I'd be more inclined to agree if there were a fixed disk size. But we both know human postings take few kbs. Even a high rez jpeg is more bytes than most of a month's writing. Put another way: I'm not trammeling on anyone's freedom to post whatever, starting thousands of conversations around me, like in a busy restaurant. It could be so high volume around here that you just pick and choose a few threads, like on comp.lang.python. I don't think my relatively high post rate is a barrier to that happening. Ergo I don't view myself as quelling debate and or discussion of whether to teach lists first or dictionaries. Just ignore me already. Have you anything to say? Go right ahead and say it. How am I in your way? I'd think teachers would *want* to be on record somewhere as supporting a more prominent role for programming in our culture. Edu-sig could be used in that way. That puts you on the winning side early, often a good place to be.
Because it comes across like Kirby's or Paul's Journal -
But why is that Kirby's or Paul's fault? Start hitting it back and forth with Dethe about whatever you want to talk about. Stop blank staring at me. Snap out of it man!
it's not often asking for input or in response to others' questions, it's information from you being shared. There's valuable information there, but it's not fitting for an email list. I mean 19kb Paul in response to my post!
I've been very conversational in style. These write-ups or class notes form a piece of it, yes, but I'm hardly just blabbering to myself. I'm interspersing my remarks. Like here. It's just like an ordinary email list, sometimes with longer essays by some of the more prolific. Ever been on with a group of writers before? It's just like this. Some characters you learn to tune out -- life is short, I think that's a given.
This idea that I'm just sitting back in an armchair, pontificating and theorizing, might fit some other subscribers here, but not me.
In Portland, Oregon, we actually teach mathematics using Python. That's just the reality on the ground. I use edu-sig to file notes on how we're doing that, helping to spread competence to other gnu math teachers out there (a growing army).
But is that edu-sig's role? I'd say no - that's something for your own website/blog to fulfill, not a general discussion list. I'd
I don't *just* use edu-sig in this way, and I *do* put a lot more in my blogs, including pictures. But I hardly think it's off topical to take a real case of a real teacher really teaching Python, and publishing some of the notes to edu-sig exclusively. That's part of what makes this a valuable resource. Doesn't have to be the whole story.
certainly not want you to never provide feedback, but give us brief updates on what you're finding works every so often and let us read it on your site if we choose.
That sounds like trying to micromanage. But I know very well you can filter emails, not read my stuff. And that's *great*! I shouldn't be able to flood you with stuff you don't care about -- not because I need to cut back, but because you have the power to filter (as do I). Remember, I get a lot of fan mail. People encourage me. Why should I listen to you over them, when it comes to exactly what/how/when I should post to edu-sig.
It comes back to whether the list is viewed as information dissemination or a community. I would strongly argue for the latter, as the former can be done by individuals.
So welcome to our community then. Don't think I don't consider it to be one.
Dominance by a few people doesn't build for an open community either, or even community.
I haven't bought into your "dominance" metaphor yet. I'm not forcing anyone to keep quiet about what they care about am I? So what that I write a lot? I'm a writer.
I'm also a busy professional, a DBA for a team of eminent heart surgeons, with clinical data going back to the 1960s (among other hats that I wear).
I have great respect for the amount you manage to do, one day I may reach this level of productivity!
In the end it's up to the list mom (an invention sorely missed these days) to say what we can and cannot do. I mean no disrespect to your work by these postings Kirby.
Regards, Peter
Why do we need a "list mom"? That sounds so cub scout. Kirby
participants (2)
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kirby urner -
Peter Bowyer