From: kirby urnerDate: Wednesday, August 2, 2006 12:26 pmSubject: Re: Re: [Edu-sig] Excited about Crunchy FrogTo: ArthurCc: John Zelle , edu-sig@python.org> We're fighting different battlesAbsolutely no doubt about it.  Its a shame really.  I think that much of what you are proposing to proposecould find acceptance more readily if you were willing understand whereyour ideas fit *within* the main stream, rather than insisting that theytranscend it. I emphasize the Fuller stuff only because it is an example of you refusing to doyour homework, and sticking to your guns at the expense of good sense.  Your friend Snelson tells the story of having met Fuller atBlack Mountain and being inspired by him.  But also the frustration of the math faculty at Black Mountain at Fuller presenting certain ideas as his own, or as revolutionary, when they were established mathematical ideas. Allavailable in the library. In my opinion, by taking those ideas out of theirhistorical context, and by de-academizing them, by Fullerizing them, you are making them less, not moreWe're fighting different battles - to be sure.> He's militantly anti-technologyI am not.> I read this, but it seemed mostly arguing against some straw man> "technophile" who wants to destroy the university as we know it, and> put professors out of business."""In examining the role of information technology in higher education, I have found it necessary to proceed in two steps: first deprogramming the millennialism that shapes our thinking about technology and institutions, and then examining the values that can and should inform our educational institutions. """I am militantly anti-millennialist, so recognize a kindred spirit here.And "de-programming" is, IMO, not a bad characterization of what we needto be up to.Technology has disrupted much - including a sense of history, and good sense itself.Art