Not quite true, there is Tkinter (ships with python 2.3, 2.4 and 2.4 and is cross platform graphics) Here is an example of Space Invaders in 30 lines of Python code and nothing but standard libraries. http://web.mac.com/mdipierro/iWeb/Site/Blog/18661675- EBFF-47A0-9737-86308F2B75BC.html Massimo On Jan 18, 2008, at 10:48 AM, Winston Wolff wrote:

I think built in, you are limited to turtle graphics. If you can install something, you could use my MakeBot/MoonUnit system. It does very nice graphics. I use it to teach middle school kids and it works great. ( http://stratolab.com/misc/makebot )

You could probably build something with Cocoa, but that would be some work.

--winston

On Jan 18, 2008, at 11:22 AM, Felicia Gershberg wrote:

...

Hi - I am teaching Python programming to a small group of 5th graders on Macs with OS-X. We have Python 2.3.5. I'd like to be able to do simple graphics with them, but I haven't been able to find any reference for graphics calls (Carbon?) or even how to get a graphics window - at least, not anything that works. Can anyone provide any guidance?

Note that I probably can't download anything that is not already installed on the Macs, because these are in the school computer lab, and I am a parent volunteer with no admin privileges. Thanks! Felicia

Felicia B. Gershberg, M.A.T., Ph.D., m.o.m. PACT School http://pactschool.net/ South Bay Preparatory Charter School http://www.southbayprep.org/

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Winston Wolff Stratolab - Kids exploring computers, comics, and robots (646) 827-2242 - http://stratolab.com

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Have you looked at pyglet? I'm not sure if it works with Python 2.3, but I saw a demonstration of it at a Chicago Python User Group meeting a few months ago and it appeared to both have very few dependencies as well as a clean and straightforward API. I have done Cocoa graphics programming using Python via PyObjC, and while it's not particularly hard, it is a bit ugly-looking simply due to the syntax used when sending messages to Objective-C objects. If you like, though, I can send you some basic code to get you started. Also, is your school planning on upgrading to Leopard at any point? One big advantage of it is that it comes with Python 2.5 and a number of nice Mac-specific modules built-in (such as PyObjC). - Atul On Jan 18, 2008 9:16 AM, kirby urner <kirby.urner@gmail.com> wrote:

...

Note that I probably can't download anything that is not already installed on the Macs, because these are in the school computer lab, and I am a parent volunteer with no admin privileges. Thanks! Felicia

Felicia B. Gershberg, M.A.T., Ph.D., m.o.m.

Not a Mac expert here (far from it), but just wanted to comment how many schools I've encountered where the approach is to deliberately dumb down the expensive capabilities of their systems, as a substitute for paying a real sysop to do it right.

One of my gigs awhile back was for a local police department that, to its credit, noticed it was mainly scaring kids about cyberspace, whereas this was also likely their future i.e. if this were no fun, what was to keep 'em from giving up and joining gangs?

So how do the pros do it, i.e. show 'em the ropes, make 'em feel at home, as if this were all theirs to inherit someday.

In their worst nightmares, we'd be teaching 'em how to packet sniff with Ethereal in like the first lesson, explaining about Squid, firewalls, routers, all the rest of it -- which is exactly what we did. But George was way cool about it (exFBI). We let him sit in.

But that's not how it works in your normal school, with teachers paralyzed with fear (Python! egads!), and never doing anything much about it as the years fly by, another batch of know-nothings graduated.

Oh well, too bad for them. Not my problem.

Kirby

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On Jan 18, 2008 9:16 AM, kirby urner <kirby.urner@gmail.com> wrote:

So how do the pros do it, i.e. show 'em the ropes, make 'em feel at home, as if this were all theirs to inherit someday.

In their worst nightmares, we'd be teaching 'em how to packet sniff with Ethereal in like the first lesson, explaining about Squid, firewalls, routers, all the rest of it -- which is exactly what we did. But George was way cool about it (exFBI). We let him sit in.

I plan to blog about Hacker Ethics sometime soon, partly in reference to the above (I'll add a link), as maybe this gives the impression that we were somehow advocating irresponsibly breaking the rules (not likely, with George hovering) -- as if real hackers are just crackers with no ethics. On the contrary, we earn respect for our (often more liberal) license agreements because we make a special point of reading and honoring theirs. In using Ethereal that first day, we mostly just wanted our gnubees to understand about "the stack" i.e. that applications sit atop TCP/IP and a physical transport layer. Intercepting some application traffic, dissecting a few packets, is what Ethereal is good at, and we weren't breaking any laws. Also, we were doing what George and his friends wanted us to do: heightening awareness of how it's easy enough to compromise your own privacy (and perhaps therefore security) if you don't understand your environment, how all the technology works, fits together. School is about learning survival skills, or should be, so it's not just about watching for pervs in chat rooms. You'll also want to have on your radar the possibility of people in coffee shops sucking down your unencrypted packets just to read others' emails. Maybe you *want* them to do that (like you're a "selective leaker" -- some kind of political operative or something). Put another way: "intelligent paranoia" is simply another word for "alert". The problem is "paranoia" is by definition a psychopathology and is intimately tied to ignorance, i.e. so many people go the other direction, hunker down, never enjoy the freedoms of the Internet, because they're so unclear about its inner workings that the think just one key press, or one Python on the school server, and mean everyone seeing into their bank account or being able to change their own grades, medical records or whatever. "School in Cyberia" is all about getting street wise in various ways, in order to enjoy it in relative safety. Yes, you daredevils might still take some calculated risks from time to time, but at least you presumably know the odds, have a strong grasp of reality. Too many of our schools just turn their backs on the issue, leaving adults and children alike to flounder in this brave "new" world of hoaxers and shysters, as up to no good as ever (like the bad guys ain't stupid, so why should you be?). Kirby

But that's not how it works in your normal school, with teachers paralyzed with fear (Python! egads!), and never doing anything much about it as the years fly by, another batch of know-nothings graduated.

Oh well, too bad for them. Not my problem.

Kirby