I didn't know what you meant about the Scheme people >showing restraint nor what you meant by "hating to 'go >back to Russia'".

Yeah. I guess I do talk in riddles, sometimes. But I *am* saying something rather harsh, and it is difficult to say - in so many words. From the edu-sig page -

TeachScheme! A similar project using Scheme instead of Python; they >have 5 years of experience doing similar things.

Really don't want to beat this horse, though. But I am, who I am, so I shall. And suggest that under your definition/concept of CP4E, which is about as good a concept/definition as I might imagine, the statement that it is a "similar project" to TeachScheme, is a mischaracter·i·zation of TeachScheme. CP4E is a slogan and some concepts. What actual resources does it include? I get to that. TeachScheme is a comprehensive set of organized resources developed methodically over a number of years - representing a developed approach to the introduction of programming, and a comprehensive set of organized resources for doing so. How effective it is or isn't - not being the point. I don't know. Not having gone through the program. And it is free and Open Source, and the advocacy of the use of Python as an introductory programming language is in direct competition with it. Saying that CP4E is a "similar project" cannot be supported. Sloppiness of this sort is bad, when it is self-serving. If we put together the best available resources for using Python in education - and there are many good resources - it may be possible to say there are resources out there that can rival TeachScheme. But those resources are individual efforts. And most could not be classified to exist under the CP4E banner, because they are outside of the CP4E concept of being accessible to "everybody" - and certainly their creators may not have not signed off on having their effort as considered within the CP4E "framework". Is everything of an educational nature written in or about Python part of CP4E? Who said? How does one get off that bus? If it is that which grew out of the original CP4E proposal than it is IDLE, perhaps, and only IDLE. Do you want to defend the notion that IDLE is "similar" to TeachScheme? I don't. I'll rather go back to Russia. (I guess that's from my childhood. My family and many of the families around us had Eastern European roots. In the heat of political battle you might tell someone to your Left - and therefore less of a patriot then oneself - to go back to Russia. But you were probably saying it to some Aunt that you loved (and would hate to see go back to Russia), or some Nephew, who had nver been there. Not to be taken too seriously, in other words. Art