Close, but no cigar
Bruce Sherwood has released a new VPython for Python23. IDLE has always been the editor which is "supported" by Bruce for the purposes of his physics curriculum, so the integration of IDLEdev into IDLE for Python23 has provided an opportunity for the simplication of the VPython distribution on Windows. But despite the fact he is and has been content to have the vpython docs and demos reside under ...site-packages\visual, he still cannot use disutils for his Windows distribution. He takes advantage of the new ability to add the VPython help files as an *additional* resource to the IDLE help menu. Which is exactly why he is content to have the docs "buried" in ..\site-packages\visual\docs. The problem is that the config-main.def file which needs to be touched to accomplish this is in ../idlelib, not off the site-packages tree. So out of reach of bdist_wininst. The other customization he chooses to make is a desktop icon which has ..\sitepackages\vpython\demos as its "start-in" directory. Which is why he is content to have the vpython demos under ''\site-packages\visual\demos directory. But he can only do this with disutils if win32all is known to be installed. An assumption that Bruce cannot reasonably make. My criticism of the distribution (besides my previously stated discomfort about how Numeric is handled) is the fact that the icon placed on the desk-top is simply called "IDLE for Python" - no indication of it having been placed there by VPython, custom to its needs (as to the "start-in" directory. For a PyGeo distro (which relies on VPython), for example, it would be perfectly reasonable to expect that I would add reference to the PyGeo help files in the IDLE config files, rather than replace the reference to the VPython help files. It is not reasonable to expect me to live with a desktop icon to the one and only IDLE that points to the VPython demos as its start-in file. And expect the PyGeo user to fend for himself. But nor am I comfortable, or have any particular reason, to want to overwrite a VPython shortcut to IDLE. The VPython placed shortcut should be clearly named so that it is understood it is placed on the desktop by VPython, and the approproate icon to hit when firing up to work on VPython. And I can do the same as to PyGeo. I can't believe there is any technical issue involved, especially as it currently assumed we are both working with full-blown Windows installers. Bruce, Be reasonable on this. Please. Art
I'd be happy to change the name of the desktop icon. It could still be called "IDLE for VPython" instead of "IDLE for Python". Would that be preferable? I thought it important to have a desktop icon, because the "IDLE (Python GUI)" menu item is buried so very deeply in the Start menu. Where it should start isn't so clear; "IDLE (Python GUI)" starts in C:\Python23, which is moderately inappropriate too. A more neutral starting point would be My Documents. But as you say, labeling it for VPython would seem to be better than what I did. I'm not ecstatic about completely overwriting config-main.def. It would be better for the VPython installer to edit that file, and for PyGeo also to edit that file (e.g. adding an entry for the PyGeo help). Does anyone know how to do this kind of thing in the context of an installer? (I'm using Inno Setup.) I did think I'd covered the problems by prominently stating what the installer does, and inviting sophisticated users to make adjustments if they wish. I'm not sure I understand the distutils issues you're raising. Are you saying that I should be using distutils, or are you saying that you understand why I can't use this mechanism, but wish it were possible? Bruce Sherwood Arthur wrote:
Bruce Sherwood has released a new VPython for Python23. IDLE has always been the editor which is "supported" by Bruce for the purposes of his physics curriculum, so the integration of IDLEdev into IDLE for Python23 has provided an opportunity for the simplication of the VPython distribution on Windows.
But despite the fact he is and has been content to have the vpython docs and demos reside under ...site-packages\visual, he still cannot use disutils for his Windows distribution.
He takes advantage of the new ability to add the VPython help files as an *additional* resource to the IDLE help menu. Which is exactly why he is content to have the docs "buried" in ..\site-packages\visual\docs.
The problem is that the config-main.def file which needs to be touched to accomplish this is in ../idlelib, not off the site-packages tree. So out of reach of bdist_wininst.
The other customization he chooses to make is a desktop icon which has ..\sitepackages\vpython\demos as its "start-in" directory. Which is why he is content to have the vpython demos under ''\site-packages\visual\demos directory.
But he can only do this with disutils if win32all is known to be installed. An assumption that Bruce cannot reasonably make.
My criticism of the distribution (besides my previously stated discomfort about how Numeric is handled) is the fact that the icon placed on the desk-top is simply called "IDLE for Python" - no indication of it having been placed there by VPython, custom to its needs (as to the "start-in" directory.
For a PyGeo distro (which relies on VPython), for example, it would be perfectly reasonable to expect that I would add reference to the PyGeo help files in the IDLE config files, rather than replace the reference to the VPython help files.
It is not reasonable to expect me to live with a desktop icon to the one and only IDLE that points to the VPython demos as its start-in file. And expect the PyGeo user to fend for himself. But nor am I comfortable, or have any particular reason, to want to overwrite a VPython shortcut to IDLE.
The VPython placed shortcut should be clearly named so that it is understood it is placed on the desktop by VPython, and the approproate icon to hit when firing up to work on VPython.
And I can do the same as to PyGeo.
I can't believe there is any technical issue involved, especially as it currently assumed we are both working with full-blown Windows installers.
Bruce,
Be reasonable on this.
Please.
Art
------------------------------------------------------- This SF.Net email sponsored by: Free pre-built ASP.NET sites including Data Reports, E-commerce, Portals, and Forums are available now. Download today and enter to win an XBOX or Visual Studio .NET. http://aspnet.click-url.com/go/psa00100003ave/direct;at.aspnet_072303_01/01 _______________________________________________ Visualpython-users mailing list Visualpython-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/visualpython-users
Bruce -
I'm not sure I understand the distutils issues you're raising. Are you saying that I should be using distutils, or are you saying that you understand why I can't use this mechanism, but wish it were possible?
I am agreeing that in fact you have little choice but to go beyond disutils to accomplish the reasonable things you want to accomplish (and some of the unreasonable things, as well ;). I am expressing frustration on that point, because the things that disutils *can't* do for you seem relatively minor, but - I agree with you - are important for adequately addressing the reasonable needs of your user base. And expressing some impotence in the face of the situation - because I am not adequately configured to do much more than point to the issue. Not solve it. That can be taken as unreasonable and unnecessary assault on the people who are making concrete contributions, in code, to building a distribution system for python modules and applications. Or, as I intend it, my own best effort to contribute to the effort by bringing to the fore some use case issues. As to my other rant - the default start-up mode for IDLE. What can I say. Perhaps I shouldn't be nasty. But you seem hard to get through to. You are effecting all users for all purposes by imposing your preference on IDLE on anyone who happens to download VPython for any reason. It amazes me that you don't seem to see that it is your responsibility to instruct your users on how to change the default on their machines to the preferences you prefer. Not impose your preferences over that of the Developer of IDLE, and for all people who download software -which you didn't write, own or control (visual or IDLE) - from your site. Sorry. Seems to me you should. Art
participants (2)
-
Arthur -
Bruce Sherwood