Re: [Edu-sig] Joining my first SIG - Panel
On Sun, Oct 24, 2010 at 6:29 PM, Helene Martin <lognaturel@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Vern,
I always have trouble with bluetooth interference, changing COM ports (probably a Windows XP "feature"), low batteries and so on. Of
course, these issues are probably aggravated by having 60 students
working with them over 220 minutes in a day but I imagine they show up at any scale. At first, the students find it quaint and put up with it but I've found that their tolerance for the quirks is finite, as is mine. I hesitate to teach Python basics using the platform for those reasons. Do you share those problems? How do you address them?
The bluetooth problem is pretty much taken care of by using the dedicated Linux laptops - as long as I can set them up without the others on, it's no problem and we don't have any real trouble with that. The battery issue is real - as the voltage goes down the bot's behavior changes, and I shudder to think of the number of batteries we've burned through. OTOH, I don't see such quirks as obstacles to programming, but rather factors that can be at least partly mitigated with code. So we acknowledge the frustration and try (not always successfully, which is in itself a lesson) to deal with it. All of my kids are used to reading the battery state frequently in their code, and they're experimenting to find what they can do within the limitations of the machines. And failure, (as they say on Mythbusters) is always and option. However, a "failure" that establishes just how far the robot can be pushed earns an A, as for example a pair of girls who tried to have their two robots perform a complex interactive dance. They did a good job - analyzing the problems, trying to code solutions, but in the end the hardware wasn't up to the task and they could tell you exactly why and how things didn't work. That's a success in my book and I let them know that.
That's one of the big reasons that I only do about two weeks with the 'bots. That's also about the time it takes us to get through the Georgia Tech exercises (with students already knowing Python basics).
That's impressive. We're just getting to the image processing stuff after 8 weeks, but then, most of them are new to programming. But as I said, we have covered creating modules, basic control structures, and the like, all in the context of programming the scribblers. Cheers, Vern On Sat, Oct 23, 2010 at 8:51 PM, Vern Ceder <vceder@canterburyschool.org>
On Sat, Oct 23, 2010 at 11:24 PM, Zac Miller <zmiller@gsc.edu> wrote:
Hello Vern,
The scribbler robots seem to be pretty popular from the replies I've
been
getting here. We bought one of the robots to experiment with and the students really enjoy working with it. How many of the robots do you use? What kind of robot to student ratio?
I have seven students and each has their own scribbler and dedicated laptop (they're old, retired laptops running Debian Linux) since having a dedicated laptop cuts down on the hassle/time of pairing the bluetooth board. Most of those students are new to programming and we're using the scribblers for the whole semester, sort of following the same process as GA Tech does. A couple of the experienced programmers are moving on to more advanced projects, though. In working with the scribblers, they've learned if statements, functions, loops, how to create and use separate modules, share code, and now are getting to the point of using the camera to grab and process images and use that information to control the robots. A couple of the advanced kids have written multi-threaded apps to both drive the bot and have it automatically avoid obstacles. It depends on what you want to do, but scribbler/fluke combo has a lot of potential.
I think that a panel discussion with an established program like yours
and
a start up like mine may be interesting, maybe we could add a third and work out the details in private email. Anyone else interested?
+1
I'm interested in doing a poster as well. I will be working it all out this week since the talk proposal deadline is 1 November.
Good. The final poster submission deadline is January 19, but we have a limit of 35 posters and are accepting them on a rolling basis. Acceptance of a poster is not tied to whether or not a talk is accepted.
-J. Zachary Miller
Cheers, Vern
________________________________ From: Vern Ceder [vceder@canterburyschool.org] Sent: Saturday, October 23, 2010 7:55 PM To: Zac Miller Cc: edu-sig@python.org Subject: Re: [Edu-sig] Joining my first SIG
Hi Zac,
On Sat, Oct 23, 2010 at 6:39 PM, Zac Miller <zmiller@gsc.edu<mailto:zmiller@gsc.edu>> wrote: Hello!
I've just joined this SIG, my first, and looked over a few of the
archived
threads from last few months. My name is Zac Miller and I am currently teaching Python programming to college and middle school level students.
I am curious if there are many K12 educators involved in this SIG? I am looking for people to discuss my student's progress with and it seems to be hard to find others using Python in this setting.
I'm the technology director and programming teacher at Canterbury, a private school in Ft Wayne, IN. We've been teaching at least a little Python to every single 8th and 9th grader in the school since 2001, as well as offering electives in Python, Java, C, etc.
Right now, our Python class is using the same robot/bluetooth board that Georgia Tech uses (http://wiki.roboteducation.org) which has been a blast. I'm also teaching an online Python enrichment course to middle school kids through Northwestern University's Gifted Learning Links program (http://www.ctd.northwestern.edu/gll/courses/enrichment/courses/), using Warren and Carter Sande's _Hello, World!_.
As André mentioned there are a few of us on this list, so go ahead and raise your questions.
I am also considering putting together a talk proposal for PyCon 2011. So far my ideas for a talk would be a brief introduction of myself and my experiences learning and teaching Python in the past year. I attended PyCon 2010 as student. Beyond that brief introduction I would like to discuss
state of programming in K12 education in the state of Georgia, as much of it as I have been able to untangle, and ideas for improving it.
I've completed a few open record requests to the Georgia Department of Education pulling enrollment number for programming and computer science courses for the entire state. What would make for an interested PyCon talk on K12 education involving Python? Does anyone have similar data or a summary of programming education for another state they wouldn't mind sharing for me to use as comparison? Anyone interested in doing a Panel proposal?
I'd be available for a panel, and would be willing to work on a
wrote: the proposal,
but don't think I have the time to be a main organizer of one... Also, as the chair of PyCon's poster session, let me encourage you to consider presenting some of your findings as a poster. Even if you submit a talk or panel (and even if they get turned down) you can still submit a poster proposal.
Cheers, Vern Ceder
Thanks!
-J. Zachary Miller _______________________________________________ Edu-sig mailing list Edu-sig@python.org<mailto:Edu-sig@python.org> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/edu-sig
-- This time for sure! -Bullwinkle J. Moose ----------------------------- Vern Ceder, Director of Technology Canterbury School, 3210 Smith Road, Ft Wayne, IN 46804 vceder@canterburyschool.org<mailto:vceder@canterburyschool.org>; 260-436-0746; FAX: 260-436-5137
The Quick Python Book, 2nd Ed - http://bit.ly/bRsWDW
-- This time for sure! -Bullwinkle J. Moose ----------------------------- Vern Ceder, Director of Technology Canterbury School, 3210 Smith Road, Ft Wayne, IN 46804 vceder@canterburyschool.org; 260-436-0746; FAX: 260-436-5137
The Quick Python Book, 2nd Ed - http://bit.ly/bRsWDW
_______________________________________________ Edu-sig mailing list Edu-sig@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/edu-sig
-- This time for sure! -Bullwinkle J. Moose ----------------------------- Vern Ceder, Director of Technology Canterbury School, 3210 Smith Road, Ft Wayne, IN 46804 vceder@canterburyschool.org; 260-436-0746; FAX: 260-436-5137 The Quick Python Book, 2nd Ed - http://bit.ly/bRsWDW
Thanks for sharing your experience. You're right that dealing with limitations is a very important lesson. I envy your access to Linux machines! I like your story about the girls' complex dance. Sometimes the process is much, much more important than the result.
That's impressive. We're just getting to the image processing stuff after 8 weeks, but then, most of them are new to programming. But as I said, we have covered creating modules, basic control structures, and the like, all in the context of programming the scribblers.
To be clear, this is after 13 weeks or so of other programming! So really it's not all that different from the schedule you're describing. 8 weeks to image processing actually sounds pretty ambitious. Can you share with us how many days you see your students and for how many hours, what kind of homework you give them (I give none) and things like that? Apologies if you have before but I don't remember seeing it. Are you alone with the 7 or do you have to teach another class simultaneously? On Sun, Oct 24, 2010 at 5:12 PM, Vern Ceder <vceder@canterburyschool.org> wrote:
On Sun, Oct 24, 2010 at 6:29 PM, Helene Martin <lognaturel@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Vern,
I always have trouble with bluetooth interference, changing COM ports (probably a Windows XP "feature"), low batteries and so on. Of
course, these issues are probably aggravated by having 60 students working with them over 220 minutes in a day but I imagine they show up at any scale. At first, the students find it quaint and put up with it but I've found that their tolerance for the quirks is finite, as is mine. I hesitate to teach Python basics using the platform for those reasons. Do you share those problems? How do you address them?
The bluetooth problem is pretty much taken care of by using the dedicated Linux laptops - as long as I can set them up without the others on, it's no problem and we don't have any real trouble with that. The battery issue is real - as the voltage goes down the bot's behavior changes, and I shudder to think of the number of batteries we've burned through. OTOH, I don't see such quirks as obstacles to programming, but rather factors that can be at least partly mitigated with code.
So we acknowledge the frustration and try (not always successfully, which is in itself a lesson) to deal with it. All of my kids are used to reading the battery state frequently in their code, and they're experimenting to find what they can do within the limitations of the machines. And failure, (as they say on Mythbusters) is always and option. However, a "failure" that establishes just how far the robot can be pushed earns an A, as for example a pair of girls who tried to have their two robots perform a complex interactive dance. They did a good job - analyzing the problems, trying to code solutions, but in the end the hardware wasn't up to the task and they could tell you exactly why and how things didn't work. That's a success in my book and I let them know that.
That's one of the big reasons that I only do about two weeks with the 'bots. That's also about the time it takes us to get through the Georgia Tech exercises (with students already knowing Python basics).
That's impressive. We're just getting to the image processing stuff after 8 weeks, but then, most of them are new to programming. But as I said, we have covered creating modules, basic control structures, and the like, all in the context of programming the scribblers.
Cheers, Vern
On Sat, Oct 23, 2010 at 8:51 PM, Vern Ceder <vceder@canterburyschool.org> wrote:
On Sat, Oct 23, 2010 at 11:24 PM, Zac Miller <zmiller@gsc.edu> wrote:
Hello Vern,
The scribbler robots seem to be pretty popular from the replies I've been getting here. We bought one of the robots to experiment with and the students really enjoy working with it. How many of the robots do you use? What kind of robot to student ratio?
I have seven students and each has their own scribbler and dedicated laptop (they're old, retired laptops running Debian Linux) since having a dedicated laptop cuts down on the hassle/time of pairing the bluetooth board. Most of those students are new to programming and we're using the scribblers for the whole semester, sort of following the same process as GA Tech does. A couple of the experienced programmers are moving on to more advanced projects, though. In working with the scribblers, they've learned if statements, functions, loops, how to create and use separate modules, share code, and now are getting to the point of using the camera to grab and process images and use that information to control the robots. A couple of the advanced kids have written multi-threaded apps to both drive the bot and have it automatically avoid obstacles. It depends on what you want to do, but scribbler/fluke combo has a lot of potential.
I think that a panel discussion with an established program like yours and a start up like mine may be interesting, maybe we could add a third and work out the details in private email. Anyone else interested?
+1
I'm interested in doing a poster as well. I will be working it all out this week since the talk proposal deadline is 1 November.
Good. The final poster submission deadline is January 19, but we have a limit of 35 posters and are accepting them on a rolling basis. Acceptance of a poster is not tied to whether or not a talk is accepted.
-J. Zachary Miller
Cheers, Vern
________________________________ From: Vern Ceder [vceder@canterburyschool.org] Sent: Saturday, October 23, 2010 7:55 PM To: Zac Miller Cc: edu-sig@python.org Subject: Re: [Edu-sig] Joining my first SIG
Hi Zac,
On Sat, Oct 23, 2010 at 6:39 PM, Zac Miller <zmiller@gsc.edu<mailto:zmiller@gsc.edu>> wrote: Hello!
I've just joined this SIG, my first, and looked over a few of the archived threads from last few months. My name is Zac Miller and I am currently teaching Python programming to college and middle school level students.
I am curious if there are many K12 educators involved in this SIG? I am looking for people to discuss my student's progress with and it seems to be hard to find others using Python in this setting.
I'm the technology director and programming teacher at Canterbury, a private school in Ft Wayne, IN. We've been teaching at least a little Python to every single 8th and 9th grader in the school since 2001, as well as offering electives in Python, Java, C, etc.
Right now, our Python class is using the same robot/bluetooth board that Georgia Tech uses (http://wiki.roboteducation.org) which has been a blast. I'm also teaching an online Python enrichment course to middle school kids through Northwestern University's Gifted Learning Links program (http://www.ctd.northwestern.edu/gll/courses/enrichment/courses/), using Warren and Carter Sande's _Hello, World!_.
As André mentioned there are a few of us on this list, so go ahead and raise your questions.
I am also considering putting together a talk proposal for PyCon 2011. So far my ideas for a talk would be a brief introduction of myself and my experiences learning and teaching Python in the past year. I attended PyCon 2010 as student. Beyond that brief introduction I would like to discuss the state of programming in K12 education in the state of Georgia, as much of it as I have been able to untangle, and ideas for improving it.
I've completed a few open record requests to the Georgia Department of Education pulling enrollment number for programming and computer science courses for the entire state. What would make for an interested PyCon talk on K12 education involving Python? Does anyone have similar data or a summary of programming education for another state they wouldn't mind sharing for me to use as comparison? Anyone interested in doing a Panel proposal?
I'd be available for a panel, and would be willing to work on a proposal, but don't think I have the time to be a main organizer of one... Also, as the chair of PyCon's poster session, let me encourage you to consider presenting some of your findings as a poster. Even if you submit a talk or panel (and even if they get turned down) you can still submit a poster proposal.
Cheers, Vern Ceder
Thanks!
-J. Zachary Miller _______________________________________________ Edu-sig mailing list Edu-sig@python.org<mailto:Edu-sig@python.org> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/edu-sig
-- This time for sure! -Bullwinkle J. Moose ----------------------------- Vern Ceder, Director of Technology Canterbury School, 3210 Smith Road, Ft Wayne, IN 46804 vceder@canterburyschool.org<mailto:vceder@canterburyschool.org>; 260-436-0746; FAX: 260-436-5137
The Quick Python Book, 2nd Ed - http://bit.ly/bRsWDW
-- This time for sure! -Bullwinkle J. Moose ----------------------------- Vern Ceder, Director of Technology Canterbury School, 3210 Smith Road, Ft Wayne, IN 46804 vceder@canterburyschool.org; 260-436-0746; FAX: 260-436-5137
The Quick Python Book, 2nd Ed - http://bit.ly/bRsWDW
_______________________________________________ Edu-sig mailing list Edu-sig@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/edu-sig
-- This time for sure! -Bullwinkle J. Moose ----------------------------- Vern Ceder, Director of Technology Canterbury School, 3210 Smith Road, Ft Wayne, IN 46804 vceder@canterburyschool.org; 260-436-0746; FAX: 260-436-5137
The Quick Python Book, 2nd Ed - http://bit.ly/bRsWDW
On Sun, Oct 24, 2010 at 8:17 PM, Helene Martin <lognaturel@gmail.com> wrote:
Thanks for sharing your experience. You're right that dealing with limitations is a very important lesson. I envy your access to Linux machines! I like your story about the girls' complex dance. Sometimes the process is much, much more important than the result.
That's impressive. We're just getting to the image processing stuff after 8 weeks, but then, most of them are new to programming. But as I said, we have covered creating modules, basic control structures, and the like, all in the context of programming the scribblers.
To be clear, this is after 13 weeks or so of other programming! So really it's not all that different from the schedule you're describing. 8 weeks to image processing actually sounds pretty ambitious. Can you share with us how many days you see your students and for how many hours, what kind of homework you give them (I give none) and things like that? Apologies if you have before but I don't remember seeing it. Are you alone with the 7 or do you have to teach another class simultaneously?
I have the 7 for about 40 minutes a day, with nothing else going on. I realize this is a huge luxury. That means I can have them all working on projects in pairs or individually and still give pretty close attention to everyone, which makes a free-er form, project based approach possible. So while we started the year with me setting them specific challenges, they started picking their own projects (at first from my suggestions, now increasingly from their own ideas) a couple of weeks ago. So while we're talking about image processing in class, I'm pretty sure that they won't all be doing the exact same thing. Right now several of them are experimenting with looping over the pixels and changing the color values, so I expect picking up particular colored shapes will be next. We've discussed the idea of homing in on yellow tennis ball, for example, to see if we can make a bot push the ball (we're a big soccer school ;) ) and things like that. The other thing I want to try with them is seeing what behaviors we can get going, things like hiding from light (or homing in on light), etc, or maybe having them seek other blue robots, and seeing what might happen. Of course, if someone gets an interesting project idea, I let them keep working on it. At the moment one kid has the idea of using the turtle module to draw a pattern, storing it, and then having the robot follow that pattern. He knows that the bots are unreliable, but he wants to see how well he can make it work, so I said OK. What he'll learn about user interfaces, program flow, queues, namespaces, etc will probably be deeper than anything I would do in a traditional beginning programming class. So to be honest, this is the most undisciplined, free form, do-it-just-cuz-you're-curious-about-it programming class I've ever taught. And what I've lost in covering the details and in keeping everyone together, I feel I (and the kids) have more than gained back in engagement, understanding and sheer joy of discovery. At least that's how it feels so far. :) Cheers, Vern
On Sun, Oct 24, 2010 at 6:29 PM, Helene Martin <lognaturel@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Vern,
I always have trouble with bluetooth interference, changing COM ports (probably a Windows XP "feature"), low batteries and so on. Of
course, these issues are probably aggravated by having 60 students working with them over 220 minutes in a day but I imagine they show up at any scale. At first, the students find it quaint and put up with it but I've found that their tolerance for the quirks is finite, as is mine. I hesitate to teach Python basics using the platform for those reasons. Do you share those problems? How do you address them?
The bluetooth problem is pretty much taken care of by using the dedicated Linux laptops - as long as I can set them up without the others on, it's no problem and we don't have any real trouble with that. The battery issue is real - as the voltage goes down the bot's behavior changes, and I shudder to think of the number of batteries we've burned through. OTOH, I don't see such quirks as obstacles to programming, but rather factors that can be at least partly mitigated with code.
So we acknowledge the frustration and try (not always successfully, which is in itself a lesson) to deal with it. All of my kids are used to reading
battery state frequently in their code, and they're experimenting to find what they can do within the limitations of the machines. And failure, (as they say on Mythbusters) is always and option. However, a "failure" that establishes just how far the robot can be pushed earns an A, as for example a pair of girls who tried to have their two robots perform a complex interactive dance. They did a good job - analyzing the problems, trying to code solutions, but in the end the hardware wasn't up to the task and
could tell you exactly why and how things didn't work. That's a success in my book and I let them know that.
That's one of the big reasons that I only do about two weeks with the 'bots. That's also about the time it takes us to get through the Georgia Tech exercises (with students already knowing Python basics).
That's impressive. We're just getting to the image processing stuff after 8 weeks, but then, most of them are new to programming. But as I said, we have covered creating modules, basic control structures, and the like, all in
context of programming the scribblers.
Cheers, Vern
On Sat, Oct 23, 2010 at 8:51 PM, Vern Ceder < vceder@canterburyschool.org> wrote:
On Sat, Oct 23, 2010 at 11:24 PM, Zac Miller <zmiller@gsc.edu> wrote:
Hello Vern,
The scribbler robots seem to be pretty popular from the replies I've been getting here. We bought one of the robots to experiment with and the students really enjoy working with it. How many of the robots do you use? What kind of robot to student ratio?
I have seven students and each has their own scribbler and dedicated laptop (they're old, retired laptops running Debian Linux) since having a dedicated laptop cuts down on the hassle/time of pairing the bluetooth board. Most of those students are new to programming and we're using the scribblers for the whole semester, sort of following the same process as GA Tech does. A couple of the experienced programmers are moving on to more advanced projects, though. In working with the scribblers, they've learned if statements, functions, loops, how to create and use separate modules, share code, and now are getting to the point of using the camera to grab and process images and use that information to control the robots. A couple of the advanced kids have written multi-threaded apps to both drive the bot and have it automatically avoid obstacles. It depends on what you want to do, but scribbler/fluke combo has a lot of potential.
I think that a panel discussion with an established program like
yours
and a start up like mine may be interesting, maybe we could add a third and work out the details in private email. Anyone else interested?
+1
I'm interested in doing a poster as well. I will be working it all
out
this week since the talk proposal deadline is 1 November.
Good. The final poster submission deadline is January 19, but we have a limit of 35 posters and are accepting them on a rolling basis. Acceptance of a poster is not tied to whether or not a talk is accepted.
-J. Zachary Miller
Cheers, Vern
________________________________ From: Vern Ceder [vceder@canterburyschool.org] Sent: Saturday, October 23, 2010 7:55 PM To: Zac Miller Cc: edu-sig@python.org Subject: Re: [Edu-sig] Joining my first SIG
Hi Zac,
On Sat, Oct 23, 2010 at 6:39 PM, Zac Miller <zmiller@gsc.edu<mailto:zmiller@gsc.edu>> wrote: Hello!
I've just joined this SIG, my first, and looked over a few of the archived threads from last few months. My name is Zac Miller and I am
currently
teaching Python programming to college and middle school level students.
I am curious if there are many K12 educators involved in this SIG? I am looking for people to discuss my student's progress with and it seems to be hard to find others using Python in this setting.
I'm the technology director and programming teacher at Canterbury, a private school in Ft Wayne, IN. We've been teaching at least a little Python to every single 8th and 9th grader in the school since 2001, as well as offering electives in Python, Java, C, etc.
Right now, our Python class is using the same robot/bluetooth board that Georgia Tech uses (http://wiki.roboteducation.org) which has been a blast. I'm also teaching an online Python enrichment course to middle school kids through Northwestern University's Gifted Learning Links program (http://www.ctd.northwestern.edu/gll/courses/enrichment/courses/), using Warren and Carter Sande's _Hello, World!_.
As André mentioned there are a few of us on this list, so go ahead and raise your questions.
I am also considering putting together a talk proposal for PyCon
So far my ideas for a talk would be a brief introduction of myself and my experiences learning and teaching Python in the past year. I attended PyCon 2010 as student. Beyond that brief introduction I would like to discuss the state of programming in K12 education in the state of Georgia, as much of it as I have been able to untangle, and ideas for improving it.
I've completed a few open record requests to the Georgia Department of Education pulling enrollment number for programming and computer science courses for the entire state. What would make for an interested PyCon talk on K12 education involving Python? Does anyone have similar data or a summary of programming education for another state they wouldn't mind sharing for me to use as comparison? Anyone interested in doing a Panel proposal?
I'd be available for a panel, and would be willing to work on a proposal, but don't think I have the time to be a main organizer of one... Also, as the chair of PyCon's poster session, let me encourage you to consider presenting some of your findings as a poster. Even if you submit a talk or panel (and even if they get turned down) you can still submit a
On Sun, Oct 24, 2010 at 5:12 PM, Vern Ceder <vceder@canterburyschool.org> wrote: the they the 2011. poster
proposal.
Cheers, Vern Ceder
Thanks!
-J. Zachary Miller _______________________________________________ Edu-sig mailing list Edu-sig@python.org<mailto:Edu-sig@python.org> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/edu-sig
-- This time for sure! -Bullwinkle J. Moose ----------------------------- Vern Ceder, Director of Technology Canterbury School, 3210 Smith Road, Ft Wayne, IN 46804 vceder@canterburyschool.org<mailto:vceder@canterburyschool.org>; 260-436-0746; FAX: 260-436-5137
The Quick Python Book, 2nd Ed - http://bit.ly/bRsWDW
-- This time for sure! -Bullwinkle J. Moose ----------------------------- Vern Ceder, Director of Technology Canterbury School, 3210 Smith Road, Ft Wayne, IN 46804 vceder@canterburyschool.org; 260-436-0746; FAX: 260-436-5137
The Quick Python Book, 2nd Ed - http://bit.ly/bRsWDW
_______________________________________________ Edu-sig mailing list Edu-sig@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/edu-sig
-- This time for sure! -Bullwinkle J. Moose ----------------------------- Vern Ceder, Director of Technology Canterbury School, 3210 Smith Road, Ft Wayne, IN 46804 vceder@canterburyschool.org; 260-436-0746; FAX: 260-436-5137
The Quick Python Book, 2nd Ed - http://bit.ly/bRsWDW
-- This time for sure! -Bullwinkle J. Moose ----------------------------- Vern Ceder, Director of Technology Canterbury School, 3210 Smith Road, Ft Wayne, IN 46804 vceder@canterburyschool.org; 260-436-0746; FAX: 260-436-5137 The Quick Python Book, 2nd Ed - http://bit.ly/bRsWDW
Wow -- what a great opportunity for you and the students! That sounds like so much fun. Cool to hear about the ideas they're coming up with. Keep us posted on what they do over the rest of the semester/year! Hélène. On Sun, Oct 24, 2010 at 6:28 PM, Vern Ceder <vceder@canterburyschool.org> wrote:
On Sun, Oct 24, 2010 at 8:17 PM, Helene Martin <lognaturel@gmail.com> wrote:
Thanks for sharing your experience. You're right that dealing with limitations is a very important lesson. I envy your access to Linux machines! I like your story about the girls' complex dance. Sometimes the process is much, much more important than the result.
That's impressive. We're just getting to the image processing stuff after 8 weeks, but then, most of them are new to programming. But as I said, we have covered creating modules, basic control structures, and the like, all in the context of programming the scribblers.
To be clear, this is after 13 weeks or so of other programming! So really it's not all that different from the schedule you're describing. 8 weeks to image processing actually sounds pretty ambitious. Can you share with us how many days you see your students and for how many hours, what kind of homework you give them (I give none) and things like that? Apologies if you have before but I don't remember seeing it. Are you alone with the 7 or do you have to teach another class simultaneously?
I have the 7 for about 40 minutes a day, with nothing else going on. I realize this is a huge luxury. That means I can have them all working on projects in pairs or individually and still give pretty close attention to everyone, which makes a free-er form, project based approach possible. So while we started the year with me setting them specific challenges, they started picking their own projects (at first from my suggestions, now increasingly from their own ideas) a couple of weeks ago. So while we're talking about image processing in class, I'm pretty sure that they won't all be doing the exact same thing. Right now several of them are experimenting with looping over the pixels and changing the color values, so I expect picking up particular colored shapes will be next. We've discussed the idea of homing in on yellow tennis ball, for example, to see if we can make a bot push the ball (we're a big soccer school ;) ) and things like that.
The other thing I want to try with them is seeing what behaviors we can get going, things like hiding from light (or homing in on light), etc, or maybe having them seek other blue robots, and seeing what might happen.
Of course, if someone gets an interesting project idea, I let them keep working on it. At the moment one kid has the idea of using the turtle module to draw a pattern, storing it, and then having the robot follow that pattern. He knows that the bots are unreliable, but he wants to see how well he can make it work, so I said OK. What he'll learn about user interfaces, program flow, queues, namespaces, etc will probably be deeper than anything I would do in a traditional beginning programming class.
So to be honest, this is the most undisciplined, free form, do-it-just-cuz-you're-curious-about-it programming class I've ever taught. And what I've lost in covering the details and in keeping everyone together, I feel I (and the kids) have more than gained back in engagement, understanding and sheer joy of discovery. At least that's how it feels so far. :)
Cheers, Vern
On Sun, Oct 24, 2010 at 5:12 PM, Vern Ceder <vceder@canterburyschool.org> wrote:
On Sun, Oct 24, 2010 at 6:29 PM, Helene Martin <lognaturel@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Vern,
I always have trouble with bluetooth interference, changing COM ports (probably a Windows XP "feature"), low batteries and so on. Of
course, these issues are probably aggravated by having 60 students working with them over 220 minutes in a day but I imagine they show up at any scale. At first, the students find it quaint and put up with it but I've found that their tolerance for the quirks is finite, as is mine. I hesitate to teach Python basics using the platform for those reasons. Do you share those problems? How do you address them?
The bluetooth problem is pretty much taken care of by using the dedicated Linux laptops - as long as I can set them up without the others on, it's no problem and we don't have any real trouble with that. The battery issue is real - as the voltage goes down the bot's behavior changes, and I shudder to think of the number of batteries we've burned through. OTOH, I don't see such quirks as obstacles to programming, but rather factors that can be at least partly mitigated with code.
So we acknowledge the frustration and try (not always successfully, which is in itself a lesson) to deal with it. All of my kids are used to reading the battery state frequently in their code, and they're experimenting to find what they can do within the limitations of the machines. And failure, (as they say on Mythbusters) is always and option. However, a "failure" that establishes just how far the robot can be pushed earns an A, as for example a pair of girls who tried to have their two robots perform a complex interactive dance. They did a good job - analyzing the problems, trying to code solutions, but in the end the hardware wasn't up to the task and they could tell you exactly why and how things didn't work. That's a success in my book and I let them know that.
That's one of the big reasons that I only do about two weeks with the 'bots. That's also about the time it takes us to get through the Georgia Tech exercises (with students already knowing Python basics).
That's impressive. We're just getting to the image processing stuff after 8 weeks, but then, most of them are new to programming. But as I said, we have covered creating modules, basic control structures, and the like, all in the context of programming the scribblers.
Cheers, Vern
On Sat, Oct 23, 2010 at 8:51 PM, Vern Ceder <vceder@canterburyschool.org> wrote:
On Sat, Oct 23, 2010 at 11:24 PM, Zac Miller <zmiller@gsc.edu> wrote:
Hello Vern,
The scribbler robots seem to be pretty popular from the replies I've been getting here. We bought one of the robots to experiment with and the students really enjoy working with it. How many of the robots do you use? What kind of robot to student ratio?
I have seven students and each has their own scribbler and dedicated laptop (they're old, retired laptops running Debian Linux) since having a dedicated laptop cuts down on the hassle/time of pairing the bluetooth board. Most of those students are new to programming and we're using the scribblers for the whole semester, sort of following the same process as GA Tech does. A couple of the experienced programmers are moving on to more advanced projects, though. In working with the scribblers, they've learned if statements, functions, loops, how to create and use separate modules, share code, and now are getting to the point of using the camera to grab and process images and use that information to control the robots. A couple of the advanced kids have written multi-threaded apps to both drive the bot and have it automatically avoid obstacles. It depends on what you want to do, but scribbler/fluke combo has a lot of potential.
I think that a panel discussion with an established program like yours and a start up like mine may be interesting, maybe we could add a third and work out the details in private email. Anyone else interested?
+1
I'm interested in doing a poster as well. I will be working it all out this week since the talk proposal deadline is 1 November.
Good. The final poster submission deadline is January 19, but we have a limit of 35 posters and are accepting them on a rolling basis. Acceptance of a poster is not tied to whether or not a talk is accepted.
-J. Zachary Miller
Cheers, Vern
________________________________ From: Vern Ceder [vceder@canterburyschool.org] Sent: Saturday, October 23, 2010 7:55 PM To: Zac Miller Cc: edu-sig@python.org Subject: Re: [Edu-sig] Joining my first SIG
Hi Zac,
On Sat, Oct 23, 2010 at 6:39 PM, Zac Miller <zmiller@gsc.edu<mailto:zmiller@gsc.edu>> wrote: Hello!
I've just joined this SIG, my first, and looked over a few of the archived threads from last few months. My name is Zac Miller and I am currently teaching Python programming to college and middle school level students.
I am curious if there are many K12 educators involved in this SIG? I am looking for people to discuss my student's progress with and it seems to be hard to find others using Python in this setting.
I'm the technology director and programming teacher at Canterbury, a private school in Ft Wayne, IN. We've been teaching at least a little Python to every single 8th and 9th grader in the school since 2001, as well as offering electives in Python, Java, C, etc.
Right now, our Python class is using the same robot/bluetooth board that Georgia Tech uses (http://wiki.roboteducation.org) which has been a blast. I'm also teaching an online Python enrichment course to middle school kids through Northwestern University's Gifted Learning Links program (http://www.ctd.northwestern.edu/gll/courses/enrichment/courses/), using Warren and Carter Sande's _Hello, World!_.
As André mentioned there are a few of us on this list, so go ahead and raise your questions.
I am also considering putting together a talk proposal for PyCon 2011. So far my ideas for a talk would be a brief introduction of myself and my experiences learning and teaching Python in the past year. I attended PyCon 2010 as student. Beyond that brief introduction I would like to discuss the state of programming in K12 education in the state of Georgia, as much of it as I have been able to untangle, and ideas for improving it.
I've completed a few open record requests to the Georgia Department of Education pulling enrollment number for programming and computer science courses for the entire state. What would make for an interested PyCon talk on K12 education involving Python? Does anyone have similar data or a summary of programming education for another state they wouldn't mind sharing for me to use as comparison? Anyone interested in doing a Panel proposal?
I'd be available for a panel, and would be willing to work on a proposal, but don't think I have the time to be a main organizer of one... Also, as the chair of PyCon's poster session, let me encourage you to consider presenting some of your findings as a poster. Even if you submit a talk or panel (and even if they get turned down) you can still submit a poster proposal.
Cheers, Vern Ceder
Thanks!
-J. Zachary Miller _______________________________________________ Edu-sig mailing list Edu-sig@python.org<mailto:Edu-sig@python.org> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/edu-sig
-- This time for sure! -Bullwinkle J. Moose ----------------------------- Vern Ceder, Director of Technology Canterbury School, 3210 Smith Road, Ft Wayne, IN 46804 vceder@canterburyschool.org<mailto:vceder@canterburyschool.org>; 260-436-0746; FAX: 260-436-5137
The Quick Python Book, 2nd Ed - http://bit.ly/bRsWDW
-- This time for sure! -Bullwinkle J. Moose ----------------------------- Vern Ceder, Director of Technology Canterbury School, 3210 Smith Road, Ft Wayne, IN 46804 vceder@canterburyschool.org; 260-436-0746; FAX: 260-436-5137
The Quick Python Book, 2nd Ed - http://bit.ly/bRsWDW
_______________________________________________ Edu-sig mailing list Edu-sig@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/edu-sig
-- This time for sure! -Bullwinkle J. Moose ----------------------------- Vern Ceder, Director of Technology Canterbury School, 3210 Smith Road, Ft Wayne, IN 46804 vceder@canterburyschool.org; 260-436-0746; FAX: 260-436-5137
The Quick Python Book, 2nd Ed - http://bit.ly/bRsWDW
-- This time for sure! -Bullwinkle J. Moose ----------------------------- Vern Ceder, Director of Technology Canterbury School, 3210 Smith Road, Ft Wayne, IN 46804 vceder@canterburyschool.org; 260-436-0746; FAX: 260-436-5137
The Quick Python Book, 2nd Ed - http://bit.ly/bRsWDW
participants (2)
-
Helene Martin -
Vern Ceder