Any kind of programming one might be doing of any seriousness- math related or not - it is a means to some end, not an end to itself. That statement would seem to be supportable by everyone who posted up on the topic. If programming is going to be introduced into the school system, it should earn its place - be a means to some end Which is a more controversial statement, perhaps, but reasonable I think, where precious resources are being consumed, and a small percentage of the students are likely to have a lifelong interest in the subject. So it is not so such a matter of introducing programming in a math curriculum, but enhancing math education with the tool. One does need to buy-in that a grounding in and excitement about math is a worthy goal And I hope we are not at the point where that is a controversial matter. The best intentions of using elementary programming skills to enhance other fundamental subject matter in fundamental ways has been discussed abstractly Kirby's work - which he knows well I have my own quibbles with - is well beyond the abstract discussion stage. We know we are talking about something real So hoping we send the math teachers to Kirby's math school rather tham Industrial Artists to Java school, should not be a suggestion that should raise many hackles here, I would think.