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November 2024

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Future of HPy? Faster CPython, and comparison between different Python interpreters
by PIERRE AUGIER Nov. 19, 2024

Nov. 19, 2024

Hi HPy developers, I send this email here since it can reach people interested in HPy, and PyPy/GraalPy developers. CPython 3.13 has an experimental JIT. The results in term of global performance can be followed here https://github.com/faster-cpython/benchmarking-public. It is still very modest (best results are something like 1.4 time faster than CPython 3.10). However, there are other plans to improve CPython new JIT (https://github.com/faster-cpython/ideas/blob/main/3.14/README.md, see also https://github.com/faster-cpython/ideas/issues/701#issuecomment-2405979384) so we can guess that CPython 3.14 and 3.15 will be (a bit?) faster. In https://github.com/faster-cpython/ideas/blob/main/3.14/README.md, I read with interest that HPy is mentioned! #### HPy-like C API Tagged integers will require new internal APIs to pass opaque references, so we might as well add a new, consistent API modeled on [HPy](https://hpyproject.org/). We will use this internally to start with, but we expect tools like [Cython](https://cython.org/) and [Pybind11](https://github.com/pybind/pybind11) will want to use it to avoid the overhead of going through the `PyObject *` based API. So I was wondering about the state of HPy. For example, is there a plan to port Numpy 2 in HPy? What about HPy support in Cython? Do you still think HPy could become more popular and used? Another related question is about the performance comparison between different interpreters. It seems to me that the difference of performance between CPython and other alternative interpreters is a strong argument for HPy. Seeing the performance comparisons with different versions and commits of CPython, I was wondering about similar comparisons with other interpreters (in practice PyPy and GraalPy). It would be very interesting to know from fair benchmarks about the performance of different interpreters. In https://github.com/oracle/graalpython, it's written "GraalPy is ~4x faster than CPython on the [official Python Performance Benchmark Suite](https://pyperformance.readthedocs.io/)". In https://pypy.org/, there is written "PyPy is 4.4 times faster than CPython 3.7", but comparing to CPython 3.7 does not make sense nowadays. Is it also measured with https://pyperformance.readthedocs.io/ ? Do you think it would be interesting and feasible to have a website showing fair comparisons between different Python interpreters ? I guess a simple solution would be to use faster-cpython workflows by asking them to also consider stable releases of PyPy and GraalPy. I'm going to ask in https://github.com/faster-cpython/ideas. Would there be a good alternative solution to get such data? Pierre Augier

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Re: hpy-dev Digest, Vol 45, Issue 1
by da-woods Nov. 16, 2024

Nov. 16, 2024

Just to answer one of your questions: Cython and HPy. The answer is "not yet". I know Du Toit Spies has made some initial progress on it working with the GraalPython people. That's available at https://github.com/DuToitSpies/cython. I did meet him at EuroPython this year and made some rash promises about trying to get it merged into Cython proper. Time and other distractions have got in the way, although it's something I do still intend to do. David On 15/11/2024 17:00, hpy-dev-request(a)python.org wrote: > Send hpy-dev mailing list submissions to > hpy-dev(a)python.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/hpy-dev.python.org/ > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > hpy-dev-request(a)python.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > hpy-dev-owner(a)python.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of hpy-dev digest..." > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Future of HPy? Faster CPython, and comparison between different Python interpreters > (PIERRE AUGIER) > > _______________________________________________ > hpy-dev mailing list -- hpy-dev(a)python.org > To unsubscribe send an email to hpy-dev-leave(a)python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/hpy-dev.python.org/

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