After an IRC discussion with Armin, we designed the following solution: https://github.com/hpyproject/hpy/issues/83

If you have comments, please post the on the github issue, to avoid splitting discussions half here and half there :)

ciao, Antonio

On Sat, Sep 19, 2020 at 11:50 PM Antonio Cuni <anto.cuni@gmail.com> wrote:

Consider the following snippet of code:

typedef struct { HPyObject_HEAD long x; long y; } PointObject; void foo(HPyContext ctx, HPy h_point) { PointObject *p1 = HPy_CAST(ctx, PointObject, h_point); PyObjecy *py_point = HPy_AsPyObject(ctx, h_point); // [1] PointObject *p2 = (PointObject*)py_point; ... }

[1] Note that it does not need to be a call to HPy_AsPyObject: it might be a legacy method which takes a PyObject *self, or other similar ways

It is obvious that HPy_CAST and HPy_AsPyObject need to return the very same address. This is straightforward to implement on CPython, but it poses some challenges on PyPy (and probably GraalPython).

Things to consider:

1. currently, in PyPy we allocate the PointObject at a non-movable address, but so far the API does not REQUIRE it. I think it would be reasonable to have an implementation in which objects are movable and HPy_CAST pins the memory until the originating handle is closed. OTOH, the only reasonable semantics is that multiple calls to HPy_AsPyObject returns always the same address.

2. HPyObject_HEAD consists of two words which can be used by the implementation as they like. On CPython, it is obviously mapped to PyObject_HEAD, but in PyPy we (usually) don't need these two extra words, so we allocate sizeof(PointObject)-16 and return a pointer to malloc()-16, which works well since nobody is accessing those two words. I think that GraalPython could use a similar approach.

3. On PyPy, PyObject_HEAD is *three words*, because it also contains ob_pypy_link. But, since the code uses *H*PyObject_HEAD, PointObject will contain only 2 extra words.

4. In the real world usage, there will be "pure hpy types" and "legacy hpy types", which uses legacy methods&co. It would be nice if the pure hpy types do NOT have to pay penalties in case they are never casted to PyObject*

With this in mind, how do we implement HPy_AsPyObject on PyPy? One easy way is:

1. we allocate sizeof(PointObject)+8

2. we tweak cpyext to find ob_pypy_link at p-8

3. we teach cpyext how to convert W_HPyObject into PyObject* and vice versa.

However, this means that we need to always allocate 24 extra bytes for each object, even if nobody ever calls HPy_AsPyObject on it, which looks bad. Moreover, without changes in the API, the pin/unpin implementation of HPy_CAST becomes de facto impossible.

So, my proposal is to distinguish between "legacy hpy types" and "pure hpy types". An HPyType_Spec is legacy if:

1. it uses .legacy_slots = ... OR

2. it ses .legacy = true (i.e., you can explicitly mark a type as legacy even if you no longer have any legacy method/slot. This is useful if you pass it to ANOTHER type which expects to be able to cast the PyObject* into the struct).

If a type is "legacy", the snippet shown above works as expected; if it's not legacy, it is still possible to call HPy_AsPyObject on it, but then you are no longer allowed to C-cast if to PointObject* (on pypy, this will mean that you will get a "standard" PyObject* which is a proxy to W_HPyObject).

Ideally, in that case it would be nice to catch the invalid cast in the debug mode, but I don't think this is possible... too bad.

What do you think?

ciao,

Anto

After an IRC discussion with Armin, we designed the following solution: https://github.com/hpyproject/hpy/issues/83

If you have comments, please post the on the github issue, to avoid splitting discussions half here and half there :)

ciao, Antonio

On Sat, Sep 19, 2020 at 11:50 PM Antonio Cuni <anto.cuni@gmail.com> wrote:

Consider the following snippet of code:

typedef struct { HPyObject_HEAD long x; long y; } PointObject; void foo(HPyContext ctx, HPy h_point) { PointObject *p1 = HPy_CAST(ctx, PointObject, h_point); PyObjecy *py_point = HPy_AsPyObject(ctx, h_point); // [1] PointObject *p2 = (PointObject*)py_point; ... }

[1] Note that it does not need to be a call to HPy_AsPyObject: it might be a legacy method which takes a PyObject *self, or other similar ways

It is obvious that HPy_CAST and HPy_AsPyObject need to return the very same address. This is straightforward to implement on CPython, but it poses some challenges on PyPy (and probably GraalPython).

Things to consider:

1. currently, in PyPy we allocate the PointObject at a non-movable address, but so far the API does not REQUIRE it. I think it would be reasonable to have an implementation in which objects are movable and HPy_CAST pins the memory until the originating handle is closed. OTOH, the only reasonable semantics is that multiple calls to HPy_AsPyObject returns always the same address.

2. HPyObject_HEAD consists of two words which can be used by the implementation as they like. On CPython, it is obviously mapped to PyObject_HEAD, but in PyPy we (usually) don't need these two extra words, so we allocate sizeof(PointObject)-16 and return a pointer to malloc()-16, which works well since nobody is accessing those two words. I think that GraalPython could use a similar approach.

3. On PyPy, PyObject_HEAD is *three words*, because it also contains ob_pypy_link. But, since the code uses *H*PyObject_HEAD, PointObject will contain only 2 extra words.

4. In the real world usage, there will be "pure hpy types" and "legacy hpy types", which uses legacy methods&co. It would be nice if the pure hpy types do NOT have to pay penalties in case they are never casted to PyObject*

With this in mind, how do we implement HPy_AsPyObject on PyPy? One easy way is:

1. we allocate sizeof(PointObject)+8

2. we tweak cpyext to find ob_pypy_link at p-8

3. we teach cpyext how to convert W_HPyObject into PyObject* and vice versa.

However, this means that we need to always allocate 24 extra bytes for each object, even if nobody ever calls HPy_AsPyObject on it, which looks bad. Moreover, without changes in the API, the pin/unpin implementation of HPy_CAST becomes de facto impossible.

So, my proposal is to distinguish between "legacy hpy types" and "pure hpy types". An HPyType_Spec is legacy if:

1. it uses .legacy_slots = ... OR

2. it ses .legacy = true (i.e., you can explicitly mark a type as legacy even if you no longer have any legacy method/slot. This is useful if you pass it to ANOTHER type which expects to be able to cast the PyObject* into the struct).

If a type is "legacy", the snippet shown above works as expected; if it's not legacy, it is still possible to call HPy_AsPyObject on it, but then you are no longer allowed to C-cast if to PointObject* (on pypy, this will mean that you will get a "standard" PyObject* which is a proxy to W_HPyObject).

Ideally, in that case it would be nice to catch the invalid cast in the debug mode, but I don't think this is possible... too bad.

What do you think?

ciao,

Anto