Receiving funds from foreign sponsors
Hello everyone, Greetings from PyCon Atlanta. I've spoken to a couple of people here who are interested in sponsoring our conference this year. They're companies based outside India and I'm not sure what we have to do to to receive funds from abroad. I'd hate to start serious discussions with them without being sure of the details. Can someone who's knowledgeable about this post details? Thanks. --
Can someone who's knowledgeable about this post details?
a quick web search led me to http://www.fcraforngos.org/receive-funds.htm http://www.ngosindia.com/ <http://www.fcraforngos.org/receive-funds.htm> -Satya
On Sat, Mar 12 2011, satyaakam goswami wrote:
Can someone who's knowledgeable about this post details?
a quick web search led me to http://www.fcraforngos.org/receive-funds.htm http://www.ngosindia.com/ <http://www.fcraforngos.org/receive-funds.htm>
[...] Thanks but I think we should get someone with first hand experience regarding this kind of thing rather than web links. It can be a thorny issue. --
On Sat, Mar 12 2011, satyaakam goswami wrote:
Thanks but I think we should get someone with first hand experience regarding this kind of thing rather than web links. It can be a thorny issue.
by tomorrow i should be getting first hand info, also CA's can be persons to ask about this kind of cases.
[...] That'd be really useful. Thanks! --
On Sun, Mar 13, 2011 at 2:49 AM, Noufal Ibrahim <noufal@gmail.com> wrote:
On Sat, Mar 12 2011, satyaakam goswami wrote:
Thanks but I think we should get someone with first hand experience regarding this kind of thing rather than web links. It can be a thorny issue.
by tomorrow i should be getting first hand info, also CA's can be persons to ask about this kind of cases.
[...]
That'd be really useful. Thanks!
Noufal. I dont think this is an issue at all. You must go ahead and close things. Getting funds into India is the least of the problems you'll have, since our government is very friendly when it comes to receiving funds, and you'll have to explain a lot when you want to send even 500 USD out. It's a very normal banking function, and they can wire funds or even send a banker's cheque.
-- _______________________________________________ Inpycon mailing list Inpycon@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/inpycon
-- Ramdas S +91 9342 583 065
On Sun, Mar 13, 2011 at 8:47 AM, Ramdas S <ramdaz@gmail.com> wrote:
On Sun, Mar 13, 2011 at 2:49 AM, Noufal Ibrahim <noufal@gmail.com> wrote:
On Sat, Mar 12 2011, satyaakam goswami wrote:
Thanks but I think we should get someone with first hand experience regarding this kind of thing rather than web links. It can be a thorny issue.
by tomorrow i should be getting first hand info, also CA's can be persons to ask about this kind of cases.
[...]
That'd be really useful. Thanks!
Noufal. I dont think this is an issue at all. You must go ahead and close things. Getting funds into India is the least of the problems you'll have, since our government is very friendly when it comes to receiving funds, and you'll have to explain a lot when you want to send even 500 USD out. It's a very normal banking function, and they can wire funds or even send a banker's cheque.
I've generally found the receipt of funds to be very hassle free. What you do need is a good relatiionship with your bankers to get a good exchange rate. However if the funds need some different treatment than a simple income, I've run into some farily onerous documentation processes with the bank. Since IPSS is a non-profit society, I am not sure how much these documentation requirements will be or if at all they will be required, but it is best resolved by a communication between IPSS office bearers and the bank where the account is held and money will be received. Sometimes a foreign currency remittance certificate will need to be issued by the bank and they will not issue it until every small document is accounted for. While the guidelines are issued by RBI, each bank may choose to enforce it in its own way - so best to get in touch with the bank. To repeat: Receiving funds should not be a problem. Treating them as tax exempt is a question mark. The CA may well request that a certificate of the reason and nature of the remittance is required from the bank. If not (since IPSS is a non-profit body), that should not be an issue. If required, there's substantial documentation necessary. This is best discussed with the bank itself. Dhananjay -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------- http://blog.dhananjaynene.com twitter: @dnene
On Sun, 2011-03-13 at 10:19 +0530, Dhananjay Nene wrote:
Receiving funds should not be a problem. Treating them as tax exempt is a question mark. The CA may well request that a certificate of the reason and nature of the remittance is required from the bank. If not (since IPSS is a non-profit body), that should not be an issue. If required, there's substantial documentation necessary. This is best discussed with the bank itself.
will check with our CA and revert -- regards Kenneth Gonsalves http://lawgon.livejournal.com/
Dear All, The IPSS CANNOT receive foreign money. We do not have a specific permission under FCRA. It would be best if we get them to pay either the organizers (Pune team in this case, through any of their registered commercial entities) directly or we get them to pay vendors. If these options ( or something similar) are not possible, please drop the idea. Regards, - sree On 13 March 2011 08:47, Ramdas S <ramdaz@gmail.com> wrote:
On Sun, Mar 13, 2011 at 2:49 AM, Noufal Ibrahim <noufal@gmail.com> wrote:
On Sat, Mar 12 2011, satyaakam goswami wrote:
Thanks but I think we should get someone with first hand experience regarding this kind of thing rather than web links. It can be a thorny issue.
by tomorrow i should be getting first hand info, also CA's can be persons to ask about this kind of cases.
[...]
That'd be really useful. Thanks!
Noufal. I dont think this is an issue at all. You must go ahead and close things. Getting funds into India is the least of the problems you'll have, since our government is very friendly when it comes to receiving funds, and you'll have to explain a lot when you want to send even 500 USD out. It's a very normal banking function, and they can wire funds or even send a banker's cheque.
--
_______________________________________________ Inpycon mailing list Inpycon@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/inpycon
-- Ramdas S +91 9342 583 065
_______________________________________________ Inpycon mailing list Inpycon@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/inpycon
-- Sreekanth S Rameshaiah Executive Director Mahiti Infotech Pvt. Ltd. "OpenSpace", #583, Vyalikaval HBCS Layout, Nagawara, Veerannapalya, Bangalore, India - 560043 Phone: +91 80 4343 7373 Mobile: +91 98455 12611 www.mahiti.org
On Mon, Mar 14, 2011 at 9:45 AM, Sreekanth S Rameshaiah <sree@mahiti.org>wrote:
Dear All, The IPSS CANNOT receive foreign money. We do not have a specific permission under FCRA. It would be best if we get them to pay either the organizers (Pune team in this case, through any of their registered commercial entities) directly or we get them to pay vendors. If these options ( or something similar) are not possible, please drop the idea.
why do you think we should drop the idea ? , the conversations i had here in Delhi were also on same lines but looks like there is a provision to receive with a temporary certificate , i think we should pursue this since this will bite us again and again every year. yes i am aware it takes three years to the FCRA certificate etc... i will be digging more info by Thursday also i need to know more info about the amount and the company to have a context . send the info as convenient in pvt or public . -Satya
On 14 March 2011 10:02, satyaakam goswami <satyaakam@gmail.com> wrote:
On Mon, Mar 14, 2011 at 9:45 AM, Sreekanth S Rameshaiah <sree@mahiti.org>wrote:
Dear All, The IPSS CANNOT receive foreign money. We do not have a specific permission under FCRA. It would be best if we get them to pay either the organizers (Pune team in this case, through any of their registered commercial entities) directly or we get them to pay vendors. If these options ( or something similar) are not possible, please drop the idea.
why do you think we should drop the idea ? , the conversations i had here in Delhi were also on same lines but looks like there is a provision to receive with a temporary certificate , i think we should pursue this since this will bite us again and again every year.
Its based on my 13 years of experience in FCRA. Its not easy to get the the temporary license easily for organisations that do not have other income tax exemptions (with out using any short cut route). Also, you need this approval for every unique foreign currency donor contribution. As you have already taken the lead in speaking to your auditor/ subject experts proceed with it. If community finds it worth it, then definitely proceed. We will wait for your feedback. Regards, - sree
On Mon, Mar 14, 2011 at 10:16 AM, Sreekanth S Rameshaiah <sree@mahiti.org>wrote:
On 14 March 2011 10:02, satyaakam goswami <satyaakam@gmail.com> wrote:
On Mon, Mar 14, 2011 at 9:45 AM, Sreekanth S Rameshaiah <sree@mahiti.org>wrote:
Dear All, The IPSS CANNOT receive foreign money. We do not have a specific permission under FCRA. It would be best if we get them to pay either the organizers (Pune team in this case, through any of their registered commercial entities) directly or we get them to pay vendors. If these options ( or something similar) are not possible, please drop the idea.
why do you think we should drop the idea ? , the conversations i had here in Delhi were also on same lines but looks like there is a provision to receive with a temporary certificate , i think we should pursue this since this will bite us again and again every year.
Its based on my 13 years of experience in FCRA.
:-)
Its not easy to get the the temporary license easily for organisations that do not have other income tax exemptions (with out using any short cut route).
so you agree that it is possible , i still do not know and definitely do have 13 years in FCRA :-) , so will dig more for info .
Also, you need this approval for every unique foreign currency donor contribution.
did not understand this part.
As you have already taken the lead in speaking to your auditor/ subject experts proceed with it. If community finds it worth it, then definitely proceed. We will wait for your feedback.
its not about lead its about my personal interest in knowing and learning about the system, yes ultimately it will benefit someone i do not know who or how yet but this is something i wanted to know and learn , looks like a good opportunity and cause. i have not spoken to any auditor so far , lets involve the auditor who handles IPSS accounts lets see what he has to say . -Satya
Its based on my 13 years of experience in FCRA.
:-)
Its not easy to get the the temporary license easily for organisations that do not have other income tax exemptions (with out using any short cut route).
so you agree that it is possible , i still do not know and definitely do have 13 years in FCRA :-) , so will dig more for info .
oops i meant :/s/do/do not . -Satya
On Mon, Mar 14, 2011 at 10:16 AM, Sreekanth S Rameshaiah <sree@mahiti.org> wrote:
On 14 March 2011 10:02, satyaakam goswami <satyaakam@gmail.com> wrote:
On Mon, Mar 14, 2011 at 9:45 AM, Sreekanth S Rameshaiah <sree@mahiti.org> wrote:
Dear All, The IPSS CANNOT receive foreign money. We do not have a specific permission under FCRA. It would be best if we get them to pay either the organizers (Pune team in this case, through any of their registered commercial entities) directly or we get them to pay vendors. If these options ( or something similar) are not possible, please drop the idea.
Speaking for self, I wouldn't touch the idea of routing a foreign currency remittance awkwardly with a 100 foot pole. imho the destination of the funds must be IPSS and the decision must rest with the treasurer or equivalent of IPSS.
why do you think we should drop the idea ? , the conversations i had here in Delhi were also on same lines but looks like there is a provision to receive with a temporary certificate , i think we should pursue this since this will bite us again and again every year.
Its based on my 13 years of experience in FCRA. Its not easy to get the the temporary license easily for organisations that do not have other income tax exemptions (with out using any short cut route). Also, you need this approval for every unique foreign currency donor contribution. As you have already taken the lead in speaking to your auditor/ subject experts proceed with it. If community finds it worth it, then definitely proceed. We will wait for your feedback.
I think this matter really needs to move specifically into the domain of whoever is the treasurer for IPSS. I am not aware of the specific office bearers of the society, but in this case this particular position carries some fiduciary responsibilities along with it. I think we are all agreed that such funds might be useful so there is no doubt into that. What remains is the matter of deciding (sorry if I reopen otherwise answered questions - I am attempting to place it in a perspective) : a) Can IPSS receive foreign funds at all ? b) Can IPSS receive foreign funds and subject them to tax without risking the non profit character ? (which clearly means there will be tax payable on the same) c) Is the non-profit character of IPSS sufficient enough to allow tax-exemption to sponsors d) What are the documentation requirements for FCRA especially with IPSS being a non profit organisation (needs to be checked with the bank) e) Can the IPSS conduct these transactions and the necessary documentation steps. Mind you it can be time consuming if an FCRA certificate is required (which right now is an assumption until one talks to the bank) End of the day this decision rests with the treasurer or equivalent of IPSS. Dhananjay
Regards, - sree
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-- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------- http://blog.dhananjaynene.com twitter: @dnene
On Mon, Mar 14, 2011 at 10:33 AM, Dhananjay Nene <dhananjay.nene@gmail.com> wrote:
e) Can the IPSS conduct these transactions and the necessary documentation steps. Mind you it can be time consuming if an FCRA certificate is required (which right now is an assumption until one talks to the bank)
End of the day this decision rests with the treasurer or equivalent of IPSS.
Minor correction: a. Whether a certificate required is a matter for the CA to opine b. If a certificate is required, the specifics of all the documentation rests with the bank who will be processing the transaction (the one where IPSS has an account). Dhananjay -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------- http://blog.dhananjaynene.com twitter: @dnene
On Mon, 2011-03-14 at 10:33 +0530, Dhananjay Nene wrote:
I think this matter really needs to move specifically into the domain of whoever is the treasurer for IPSS.
guess who is the treasurer -- regards Kenneth Gonsalves http://lawgon.livejournal.com/
On Mon, 2011-03-14 at 10:16 +0530, Sreekanth S Rameshaiah wrote:
Its based on my 13 years of experience in FCRA.
and on my 25 years of experience in these things says the same thing. That is why we are working on this for the society, but it will take some years. -- regards Kenneth Gonsalves http://lawgon.livejournal.com/
On Sun, Mar 13 2011, Kenneth Gonsalves wrote:
On Mon, 2011-03-14 at 10:16 +0530, Sreekanth S Rameshaiah wrote:
Its based on my 13 years of experience in FCRA.
and on my 25 years of experience in these things says the same thing. That is why we are working on this for the society, but it will take some years.
Well then, alternatives. - HAve the foreign sponsors directly pay for the tickets of a foreign delegate. - Anything else people can think of? --
On Mon, 2011-03-14 at 04:11 -0700, Noufal Ibrahim wrote:
and on my 25 years of experience in these things says the same thing. That is why we are working on this for the society, but it will take some years.
Well then, alternatives. - HAve the foreign sponsors directly pay for the tickets of a foreign delegate.
that is a good one - if they give the money for tickets and accomodation to the foreign delegates it will be a huge help. -- regards Kenneth Gonsalves http://lawgon.livejournal.com/
On Sun, Mar 13 2011, Kenneth Gonsalves wrote:
On Mon, 2011-03-14 at 10:16 +0530, Sreekanth S Rameshaiah wrote:
Its based on my 13 years of experience in FCRA.
and on my 25 years of experience in these things says the same thing. That is why we are working on this for the society, but it will take some years.
Well then, alternatives. - HAve the foreign sponsors directly pay for the tickets of a foreign delegate. - Anything else people can think of?
If they can directly pay for any expenses related to the event, such as
On 14 March 2011 16:41, Noufal Ibrahim <noufal@gmail.com> wrote: travel bill, foot the food bill or pay to supplier for goodies, that will be great. - sree
2011/3/14 Sreekanth S Rameshaiah <sree@mahiti.org>:
On 14 March 2011 16:41, Noufal Ibrahim <noufal@gmail.com> wrote:
On Sun, Mar 13 2011, Kenneth Gonsalves wrote:
On Mon, 2011-03-14 at 10:16 +0530, Sreekanth S Rameshaiah wrote:
Its based on my 13 years of experience in FCRA.
and on my 25 years of experience in these things says the same thing. That is why we are working on this for the society, but it will take some years.
Well then, alternatives. - HAve the foreign sponsors directly pay for the tickets of a foreign delegate. - Anything else people can think of?
If they can directly pay for any expenses related to the event, such as travel bill, foot the food bill or pay to supplier for goodies, that will be great.
I don't think that is possible. The suppliers should be in a position to accept foreign currency, even if does and if there any enquiry, it comes back to us. Anand
2011/3/14 Sreekanth S Rameshaiah <sree@mahiti.org>:
If they can directly pay for any expenses related to the event, such as travel bill, foot the food bill or pay to supplier for goodies, that will be great.
I don't think that is possible. The suppliers should be in a position to accept foreign currency, even if does and if there any enquiry, it comes back to us.
Any commercial entity/ agency should be able to accept foreign inward remittance. Law restricts non-profits from doing foreign currency
On 14 March 2011 16:59, Anand Chitipothu <anandology@gmail.com> wrote: transactions. Regards, - sree
On Mon, Mar 14, 2011 at 5:06 PM, Sreekanth S Rameshaiah <sree@mahiti.org>wrote:
On 14 March 2011 16:59, Anand Chitipothu <anandology@gmail.com> wrote:
2011/3/14 Sreekanth S Rameshaiah <sree@mahiti.org>:
If they can directly pay for any expenses related to the event, such as travel bill, foot the food bill or pay to supplier for goodies, that will be great.
I don't think that is possible. The suppliers should be in a position to accept foreign currency, even if does and if there any enquiry, it comes back to us.
Any commercial entity/ agency should be able to accept foreign inward remittance. Law restricts non-profits from doing foreign currency transactions. Regards,
I have spoken to my CA, and he has provided couple of loopholes, all we need to do is show, the foreign entity as a collaborator, and take the bill in name of a local company, and then raise an invoice back to the foreign entity from the company. There would be the small element of 10.3% of service tax involved, which can be waived off under some clause, which has to be shown through some paper work. I think this should not be a problem. -- Ramdas S +91 9342 583 065
On Mon, 2011-03-14 at 17:25 +0530, Ramdas S wrote:
I have spoken to my CA, and he has provided couple of loopholes, all we need to do is show, the foreign entity as a collaborator, and take the bill in name of a local company, and then raise an invoice back to the foreign entity from the company. There would be the small element of 10.3% of service tax involved, which can be waived off under some clause, which has to be shown through some paper work. I think this should not be a problem.
there is a word for this - hawala. As our only big expense is going to be for foreign delegates, this should solve the problem. We have local money for everything else (I personally am not very keen on visiting our country's jails - although they seem to be a popular location now a days) -- regards Kenneth Gonsalves http://lawgon.livejournal.com/
there is a word for this - hawala. As our only big expense is going to be for foreign delegates, this should solve the problem. We have local money for everything else (I personally am not very keen on visiting our country's jails - although they seem to be a popular location now a days)
with news like these http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2011-02-25/delhi/28633449_1_plac..., it does not look like a bad place :-) -Satya
On Mon, Mar 14, 2011 at 5:25 PM, Ramdas S <ramdaz@gmail.com> wrote:
On Mon, Mar 14, 2011 at 5:06 PM, Sreekanth S Rameshaiah <sree@mahiti.org> wrote:
On 14 March 2011 16:59, Anand Chitipothu <anandology@gmail.com> wrote:
2011/3/14 Sreekanth S Rameshaiah <sree@mahiti.org>:
If they can directly pay for any expenses related to the event, such as travel bill, foot the food bill or pay to supplier for goodies, that will be great.
I don't think that is possible. The suppliers should be in a position to accept foreign currency, even if does and if there any enquiry, it comes back to us.
Any commercial entity/ agency should be able to accept foreign inward remittance. Law restricts non-profits from doing foreign currency transactions. Regards,
I have spoken to my CA, and he has provided couple of loopholes, all we need to do is show, the foreign entity as a collaborator, and take the bill in name of a local company, and then raise an invoice back to the foreign entity from the company. There would be the small element of 10.3% of service tax involved, which can be waived off under some clause, which has to be shown through some paper work. I think this should not be a problem.
Can we stick to solutions that work in letter and spirit please ? Dhananjay -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------- http://blog.dhananjaynene.com twitter: @dnene
On Mon, 2011-03-14 at 17:54 +0530, Dhananjay Nene wrote:
I have spoken to my CA, and he has provided couple of loopholes, all we need to do is show, the foreign entity as a collaborator, and take the bill in name of a local company, and then raise an invoice back to the foreign entity from the company. There would be the small element of 10.3% of service tax involved, which can be waived off under some clause, which has to be shown through some paper work. I think this should not be a problem.
Can we stick to solutions that work in letter and spirit please ?
that is my view. -- regards Kenneth Gonsalves http://lawgon.livejournal.com/
On Mon, Mar 14 2011, Ramdas S wrote: [...]
I have spoken to my CA, and he has provided couple of loopholes, all we need to do is show, the foreign entity as a collaborator, and take the bill in name of a local company, and then raise an invoice back to the foreign entity from the company. There would be the small element of 10.3% of service tax involved, which can be waived off under some clause, which has to be shown through some paper work. I think this should not be a problem.
Loopholes are not something I'd like to step into and I think I speak for the majority of the people here. --
Dear all, This list is public and archived. Please exercise restraint/ caution when dwelling on legal/ statutory matters. Regards, - sree On 14 March 2011 18:05, Noufal Ibrahim <noufal@gmail.com> wrote:
On Mon, Mar 14 2011, Ramdas S wrote:
[...]
I have spoken to my CA, and he has provided couple of loopholes, all we need to do is show, the foreign entity as a collaborator, and take the bill in name of a local company, and then raise an invoice back to the foreign entity from the company. There would be the small element of 10.3% of service tax involved, which can be waived off under some clause, which has to be shown through some paper work. I think this should not be a problem.
Loopholes are not something I'd like to step into and I think I speak for the majority of the people here.
--
-- Sreekanth S Rameshaiah Executive Director Mahiti Infotech Pvt. Ltd. "OpenSpace", #583, Vyalikaval HBCS Layout, Nagawara, Veerannapalya, Bangalore, India - 560043 Phone: +91 80 4343 7373 Mobile: +91 98455 12611 www.mahiti.org
On Mon, 2011-03-14 at 07:29 -0400, Anand Chitipothu wrote:
If they can directly pay for any expenses related to the event, such as travel bill, foot the food bill or pay to supplier for goodies, that will be great.
I don't think that is possible. The suppliers should be in a position to accept foreign currency, even if does and if there any enquiry, it comes back to us.
anything they pay should be paid outside India - like PSF paid David -- regards Kenneth Gonsalves http://lawgon.livejournal.com/
On Mon, Mar 14, 2011 at 04:15, Sreekanth S Rameshaiah <sree@mahiti.org> wrote:
under FCRA. It would be best if we get them to pay either the organizers (Pune team in this case, through any of their registered commercial entities) directly
IIUC, those organizers (companies/commercial entity) are liable to pay tax for any/all amounts thus received by them, unless they have a good explanation for the fund transfer. I am not aware if a commercial entity can explain it away with "....was just holding the money for IPSS". Your accountant is the best guide in this case. Fwiw, donations to IPSS would be exempt from tax under section 80G of the Income Tax Act only if the society is granted or applies for the same: <http://incometaxindia.gov.in/Acts/INCOME%20TAX%20ACT/80g.asp> . That said, the Indian tax exemption is not useful for foreign nationals as it may not be valid in their country. </zero paise worth> -- vid ॥ http://svaksha.com ॥
participants (8)
-
Anand Chitipothu -
Dhananjay Nene -
Kenneth Gonsalves -
Noufal Ibrahim -
Ramdas S -
satyaakam goswami -
Sreekanth S Rameshaiah -
॥ स्वक्ष ॥