Hello everyone, We need to roll out CFP soon. Before that we need to finalize how we are planning to have tutorials. Tutorials didn't work out very well last year. We had newbies submitting tutorials. One tutorial speaker didn't turn up and many were not up to the mark. One of the ideas to improve it is to have only experienced trainers give these trainings and we pay these trainers for their efforts. Instead of keeping one flat fee for attending tutorials, we can have fee for each tutorial and people will have to pay for each tutorial that they want to attend. This helps in keep the number of attendees in each training in control and we can plan the logistics better. I suggest keep Rs. 1500 for each training, limit each training to 30 people and pay about half of that amount to trainer. What do you think? Anand
Anand Chitipothu <anandology@gmail.com> writes:
Hello everyone,
We need to roll out CFP soon. Before that we need to finalize how we are planning to have tutorials.
Tutorials didn't work out very well last year. We had newbies submitting tutorials. One tutorial speaker didn't turn up and many were not up to the mark.
One of the ideas to improve it is to have only experienced trainers give these trainings and we pay these trainers for their efforts.
Yes. Tutorials have to be specially screened. No first time tutorials and only people who do training. Not a first timer. They'll also need to submit all their material and slides upfront. This will be possible only if it's already ready. We can use our discretion for specific cases if we deem it fit but the general rule stands. A small number of good tutorials (or talks for that matter) is better than a large number of average/bad ones. Meta Refresh this time had a single track I think and from the vibes, it will well received.
Instead of keeping one flat fee for attending tutorials, we can have fee for each tutorial and people will have to pay for each tutorial that they want to attend. This helps in keep the number of attendees in each training in control and we can plan the logistics better.
I suggest keep Rs. 1500 for each training, limit each training to 30 people and pay about half of that amount to trainer.
30 is kind of high for a tutorial. I suggest dropping it to 20. [...] -- Cordially, Noufal http://nibrahim.net.in
On Thu, Apr 25, 2013 at 12:03 PM, Noufal Ibrahim <noufal@nibrahim.net.in>wrote:
Anand Chitipothu <anandology@gmail.com> writes:
Hello everyone,
We need to roll out CFP soon. Before that we need to finalize how we are planning to have tutorials.
Tutorials didn't work out very well last year. We had newbies submitting tutorials. One tutorial speaker didn't turn up and many were not up to the mark.
One of the ideas to improve it is to have only experienced trainers give these trainings and we pay these trainers for their efforts.
Yes. Tutorials have to be specially screened. No first time tutorials and only people who do training. Not a first timer. They'll also need to submit all their material and slides upfront. This will be possible only if it's already ready.
We can use our discretion for specific cases if we deem it fit but the general rule stands.
A small number of good tutorials (or talks for that matter) is better than a large number of average/bad ones.
Meta Refresh this time had a single track I think and from the vibes, it will well received.
Instead of keeping one flat fee for attending tutorials, we can have fee for each tutorial and people will have to pay for each tutorial that they want to attend. This helps in keep the number of attendees in each training in control and we can plan the logistics better.
I suggest keep Rs. 1500 for each training, limit each training to 30 people and pay about half of that amount to trainer.
30 is kind of high for a tutorial. I suggest dropping it to 20.
I'm fine with 20, but I was trying to see if we can meet the costs. We've booked Nimhans even for the tutorials day. All it has is auditorium with 800, 500, 300 capacity and couple of small rooms and open space. Unfortunately we'll have use the same auditoriums for the training as well. We can use these smaller rooms and convert the open spaces into a tutorial space. Having 20 people sitting in a auditorium of 800 capacity looks a bit weird. But since we've already booked it, we'll have to live with it. Assuming that we have 10 tutorials sessions (5 in the morning and 5 in the after noon) and 20 people for session we'll get 10*20*1500 = 3L. Out of which we are planning to pay half of it to the trainers. So it doesn't even meet the cost of the venue. That was one of the reasons why I though 30 might be a compromise. I agree to your view that we should focus improving the quality than reducing the costs. We can always raise more sponsorships to meet the costs. So, shall we finalize on 20 seats per training session? Is Rs. 1500/- good amount for tutorial fee? Anand
Anand Chitipothu <anandology@gmail.com> writes: [...]
I'm fine with 20, but I was trying to see if we can meet the costs.
We've booked Nimhans even for the tutorials day. All it has is auditorium with 800, 500, 300 capacity and couple of small rooms and open space. Unfortunately we'll have use the same auditoriums for the training as well. We can use these smaller rooms and convert the open spaces into a tutorial space.
Why can't we use the small rooms for the tutorials? Can't they accomodate 20 people?
Having 20 people sitting in a auditorium of 800 capacity looks a bit weird. But since we've already booked it, we'll have to live with it.
Assuming that we have 10 tutorials sessions (5 in the morning and 5 in the after noon) and 20 people for session we'll get 10*20*1500 = 3L.
So, 5 tutorial tracks then? One morning session and one afternoon session. Is that the plan?
Out of which we are planning to pay half of it to the trainers. So it doesn't even meet the cost of the venue. That was one of the reasons why I though 30 might be a compromise. I agree to your view that we should focus improving the quality than reducing the costs. We can always raise more sponsorships to meet the costs.
I think that's better. Let's not compromise on quality due to budget problems. But since we've already booked the venue, is the money factor *that* important?
So, shall we finalize on 20 seats per training session? Is Rs. 1500/- good amount for tutorial fee?
Sounds good to me but if we have a cash crunch, I think raising it to 2k will work too. -- Cordially, Noufal http://nibrahim.net.in
Hi, On Thu, Apr 25, 2013 at 12:47 PM, Noufal Ibrahim <noufal@nibrahim.net.in> wrote:
Sounds good to me but if we have a cash crunch, I think raising it to 2k will work too.
If we are anticipating student participation in these sessions, then higher fee might be a deterrent. I think we should keep it around Rs 1000-1500. Thanks -- Thank you Balachandran Sivakumar Arise Awake and stop not till the goal is reached. - Swami Vivekananda Mail: benignbala@gmail.com Blog: http://benignbala.wordpress.com/
If the target audience of the tutorials are students, *I think* 1.5k/2k for a session would be too much, and will overall discourage them to attend any. Also, per session charging would mean tickets for sessions, and checking tickets while entering any session. I hope we'll have enough volunteers free for that. ---- Bibhas http://bibhas.in On 25 April 2013 13:41, Balachandran Sivakumar <benignbala@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi,
On Thu, Apr 25, 2013 at 12:47 PM, Noufal Ibrahim <noufal@nibrahim.net.in> wrote:
Sounds good to me but if we have a cash crunch, I think raising it to 2k will work too.
If we are anticipating student participation in these sessions, then higher fee might be a deterrent. I think we should keep it around Rs 1000-1500. Thanks
-- Thank you Balachandran Sivakumar
Arise Awake and stop not till the goal is reached. - Swami Vivekananda
Mail: benignbala@gmail.com Blog: http://benignbala.wordpress.com/ _______________________________________________ Inpycon mailing list Inpycon@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/inpycon
Bibhas Ch Debnath <me@bibhas.in> writes:
If the target audience of the tutorials are students, *I think* 1.5k/2k for a session would be too much, and will overall discourage them to attend any.
Also, per session charging would mean tickets for sessions, and checking tickets while entering any session. I hope we'll have enough volunteers free for that.
[...] We need to clarify this. The price is indicative of the quality of the tutorial. Experienced speaker, time spent on materials and a deep tutorial. It's not necessarily meant for students. If someone good had a tutorial on writing interpreters using the PyPy toolchain for example, I'd pay to attend. It's also a good idea for it to be a bit high so that people don't simply saunter in but make an active decision, possibly involving a little bit of sacrifice to attend the tutorial. This will keep the audience size limited in size and high in quality. If the instructor is similarly good, it'll be a success. I don't want to give the idea that when we say "tutorial", it means a talk intended for absolute beginners (usually students) about a topic. I want to convey that it'll be an in depth presentation possibly along with practical sessions to "teach" a topic to an audience. Finally, if someone genuinely has a cash crunch problem, we can do something about it as a special case rather than lower the fee so that "everyone" can attend. -- Cordially, Noufal http://nibrahim.net.in
On Thu, Apr 25, 2013 at 2:22 PM, Noufal Ibrahim <noufal@nibrahim.net.in>wrote:
Bibhas Ch Debnath <me@bibhas.in> writes:
If the target audience of the tutorials are students, *I think* 1.5k/2k for a session would be too much, and will overall discourage them to attend any.
Also, per session charging would mean tickets for sessions, and checking tickets while entering any session. I hope we'll have enough volunteers free for that.
[...]
We need to clarify this.
The price is indicative of the quality of the tutorial. Experienced speaker, time spent on materials and a deep tutorial. It's not necessarily meant for students. If someone good had a tutorial on writing interpreters using the PyPy toolchain for example, I'd pay to attend. It's also a good idea for it to be a bit high so that people don't simply saunter in but make an active decision, possibly involving a little bit of sacrifice to attend the tutorial. This will keep the audience size limited in size and high in quality. If the instructor is similarly good, it'll be a success.
I don't want to give the idea that when we say "tutorial", it means a talk intended for absolute beginners (usually students) about a topic. I want to convey that it'll be an in depth presentation possibly along with practical sessions to "teach" a topic to an audience.
Finally, if someone genuinely has a cash crunch problem, we can do something about it as a special case rather than lower the fee so that "everyone" can attend.
+1 Anand
Even before submitting an idea, we need to have a set of people where willing speakers if they wish, can come and discuss about certain ideas they wish to present or even just desire to deliver a talk / tutorial but unable to frame an idea around it . The group can guide them with what all can be done w.r.t that topic, how can you have a 'wow' factor or some key take away from your talk / tutorial for the attendees. Also, letting them know what has already been done at previous PyCon and how they can be different. Post selection, what we can do if possible is to help review / improve content for talks / tutorials is by having a G+ Hangout for practicing the session. Selected volunteers can do this, with the selected speakers, it is not needed to deliver all of the content, but some portion of it and how they are planning it would certainly help them receive feedback to help them manage the content better and the PyCon committee screening it better. Interesting group : http://speakup.io/ Regards Konark Modi On Thu, Apr 25, 2013 at 2:24 PM, Anand Chitipothu <anandology@gmail.com>wrote:
On Thu, Apr 25, 2013 at 2:22 PM, Noufal Ibrahim <noufal@nibrahim.net.in>wrote:
Bibhas Ch Debnath <me@bibhas.in> writes:
If the target audience of the tutorials are students, *I think* 1.5k/2k for a session would be too much, and will overall discourage them to attend any.
Also, per session charging would mean tickets for sessions, and checking tickets while entering any session. I hope we'll have enough volunteers free for that.
[...]
We need to clarify this.
The price is indicative of the quality of the tutorial. Experienced speaker, time spent on materials and a deep tutorial. It's not necessarily meant for students. If someone good had a tutorial on writing interpreters using the PyPy toolchain for example, I'd pay to attend. It's also a good idea for it to be a bit high so that people don't simply saunter in but make an active decision, possibly involving a little bit of sacrifice to attend the tutorial. This will keep the audience size limited in size and high in quality. If the instructor is similarly good, it'll be a success.
I don't want to give the idea that when we say "tutorial", it means a talk intended for absolute beginners (usually students) about a topic. I want to convey that it'll be an in depth presentation possibly along with practical sessions to "teach" a topic to an audience.
Finally, if someone genuinely has a cash crunch problem, we can do something about it as a special case rather than lower the fee so that "everyone" can attend.
+1
Anand
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Post selection, what we can do if possible is to help review / improve content for talks / tutorials is by having a G+ Hangout for practicing the session. That will be time consuming for most of the speakers. I don't think
On Thu, Apr 25, 2013 at 2:54 PM, konark modi <modi.konark@gmail.com> wrote: people will have that much free time. Kushal
While a good idea, I don't think *helping* people with presentations falls into the conference agenda. It's probably something that fits in very well with local user groups though. They can hold this kind of thing to polish talks and get them out. konark modi <modi.konark@gmail.com> writes:
Even before submitting an idea, we need to have a set of people where willing speakers if they wish, can come and discuss about certain ideas they wish to present or even just desire to deliver a talk / tutorial but unable to frame an idea around it .
The group can guide them with what all can be done w.r.t that topic, how can you have a 'wow' factor or some key take away from your talk / tutorial for the attendees. Also, letting them know what has already been done at previous PyCon and how they can be different.
Post selection, what we can do if possible is to help review / improve content for talks / tutorials is by having a G+ Hangout for practicing the session.
Selected volunteers can do this, with the selected speakers, it is not needed to deliver all of the content, but some portion of it and how they are planning it would certainly help them receive feedback to help them manage the content better and the PyCon committee screening it better.
Interesting group : http://speakup.io/
Regards Konark Modi
On Thu, Apr 25, 2013 at 2:24 PM, Anand Chitipothu <anandology@gmail.com>wrote:
On Thu, Apr 25, 2013 at 2:22 PM, Noufal Ibrahim <noufal@nibrahim.net.in>wrote:
Bibhas Ch Debnath <me@bibhas.in> writes:
If the target audience of the tutorials are students, *I think* 1.5k/2k for a session would be too much, and will overall discourage them to attend any.
Also, per session charging would mean tickets for sessions, and checking tickets while entering any session. I hope we'll have enough volunteers free for that.
[...]
We need to clarify this.
The price is indicative of the quality of the tutorial. Experienced speaker, time spent on materials and a deep tutorial. It's not necessarily meant for students. If someone good had a tutorial on writing interpreters using the PyPy toolchain for example, I'd pay to attend. It's also a good idea for it to be a bit high so that people don't simply saunter in but make an active decision, possibly involving a little bit of sacrifice to attend the tutorial. This will keep the audience size limited in size and high in quality. If the instructor is similarly good, it'll be a success.
I don't want to give the idea that when we say "tutorial", it means a talk intended for absolute beginners (usually students) about a topic. I want to convey that it'll be an in depth presentation possibly along with practical sessions to "teach" a topic to an audience.
Finally, if someone genuinely has a cash crunch problem, we can do something about it as a special case rather than lower the fee so that "everyone" can attend.
+1
Anand
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-- Cordially, Noufal http://nibrahim.net.in
I agree with both of you. While the idea here is to improve the quality of talks / workshops we need to bridge the gap between submitting proposal and delivering the talk, and certainly not making it a mandate but instead for people who are looking for some sort of guidance / mentoring . If local groups (which apparently are not that active apart from few cities) can help out, would be great. But was just proposing an idea if we could think of a way out of getting this thing under the Umbrella of PyCon India. Regards Konark On Thu, Apr 25, 2013 at 4:39 PM, Noufal Ibrahim <noufal@nibrahim.net.in>wrote:
While a good idea, I don't think *helping* people with presentations falls into the conference agenda.
It's probably something that fits in very well with local user groups though. They can hold this kind of thing to polish talks and get them out.
konark modi <modi.konark@gmail.com> writes:
Even before submitting an idea, we need to have a set of people where willing speakers if they wish, can come and discuss about certain ideas they wish to present or even just desire to deliver a talk / tutorial but unable to frame an idea around it .
The group can guide them with what all can be done w.r.t that topic, how can you have a 'wow' factor or some key take away from your talk / tutorial for the attendees. Also, letting them know what has already been done at previous PyCon and how they can be different.
Post selection, what we can do if possible is to help review / improve content for talks / tutorials is by having a G+ Hangout for practicing the session.
Selected volunteers can do this, with the selected speakers, it is not needed to deliver all of the content, but some portion of it and how they are planning it would certainly help them receive feedback to help them manage the content better and the PyCon committee screening it better.
Interesting group : http://speakup.io/
Regards Konark Modi
On Thu, Apr 25, 2013 at 2:24 PM, Anand Chitipothu <anandology@gmail.com wrote:
On Thu, Apr 25, 2013 at 2:22 PM, Noufal Ibrahim <noufal@nibrahim.net.in wrote:
Bibhas Ch Debnath <me@bibhas.in> writes:
If the target audience of the tutorials are students, *I think* 1.5k/2k for a session would be too much, and will overall discourage them to attend any.
Also, per session charging would mean tickets for sessions, and checking tickets while entering any session. I hope we'll have enough volunteers free for that.
[...]
We need to clarify this.
The price is indicative of the quality of the tutorial. Experienced speaker, time spent on materials and a deep tutorial. It's not necessarily meant for students. If someone good had a tutorial on writing interpreters using the PyPy toolchain for example, I'd pay to attend. It's also a good idea for it to be a bit high so that people don't simply saunter in but make an active decision, possibly involving a little bit of sacrifice to attend the tutorial. This will keep the audience size limited in size and high in quality. If the instructor is similarly good, it'll be a success.
I don't want to give the idea that when we say "tutorial", it means a talk intended for absolute beginners (usually students) about a topic. I want to convey that it'll be an in depth presentation possibly along with practical sessions to "teach" a topic to an audience.
Finally, if someone genuinely has a cash crunch problem, we can do something about it as a special case rather than lower the fee so that "everyone" can attend.
+1
Anand
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-- Cordially, Noufal http://nibrahim.net.in
My Take on tutorial 1) Let say it as workshop then tutorial.( we need to even provide list of thing they need to bring to avoid complaint as last year) 2) I would say keep price to 1000 as this itself will be more for student( we need more student to attend). For corporate let make there fee to be 1500 rupees. 3) As we have big enough hall why restrict number ?. If we strictly want to restrict then let have 50 as it will help trainer and pycon both. 4) About selection of trainer we need to looks for their presentation skill/ previous experience rather then putting criteria no first time. With Thanks Vijay ________________________________ From: konark modi <modi.konark@gmail.com> To: Noufal Ibrahim <noufal@nibrahim.net.in> Cc: Mailing list for the PyCon India conference <inpycon@python.org> Sent: Thursday, 25 April 2013 7:10 PM Subject: Re: [Inpycon] Tutorials I agree with both of you. While the idea here is to improve the quality of talks / workshops we need to bridge the gap between submitting proposal and delivering the talk, and certainly not making it a mandate but instead for people who are looking for some sort of guidance / mentoring . If local groups (which apparently are not that active apart from few cities) can help out, would be great. But was just proposing an idea if we could think of a way out of getting this thing under the Umbrella of PyCon India. Regards Konark On Thu, Apr 25, 2013 at 4:39 PM, Noufal Ibrahim <noufal@nibrahim.net.in> wrote:
While a good idea, I don't think *helping* people with presentations falls into the conference agenda.
It's probably something that fits in very well with local user groups though. They can hold this kind of thing to polish talks and get them out.
konark modi <modi.konark@gmail.com> writes:
Even before submitting an idea, we need to have a set of people where willing speakers if they wish, can come and discuss about certain ideas they wish to present or even just desire to deliver a talk / tutorial but unable to frame an idea around it .
The group can guide them with what all can be done w.r.t that topic, how can you have a 'wow' factor or some key take away from your talk / tutorial for the attendees. Also, letting them know what has already been done at previous PyCon and how they can be different.
Post selection, what we can do if possible is to help review / improve content for talks / tutorials is by having a G+ Hangout for practicing the session.
Selected volunteers can do this, with the selected speakers, it is not needed to deliver all of the content, but some portion of it and how they are planning it would certainly help them receive feedback to help them manage the content better and the PyCon committee screening it better.
Interesting group : http://speakup.io/
Regards Konark Modi
On Thu, Apr 25, 2013 at 2:24 PM, Anand Chitipothu <anandology@gmail.com>wrote:
On Thu, Apr 25, 2013 at 2:22 PM, Noufal Ibrahim <noufal@nibrahim.net.in>wrote:
Bibhas Ch Debnath <me@bibhas.in> writes:
If the target audience of the tutorials are students, *I think* 1.5k/2k for a session would be too much, and will overall discourage them to attend any.
Also, per session charging would mean tickets for sessions, and checking tickets while entering any session. I hope we'll have enough volunteers free for that.
[...]
We need to clarify this.
The price is indicative of the quality of the tutorial. Experienced speaker, time spent on materials and a deep tutorial. It's not necessarily meant for students. If someone good had a tutorial on writing interpreters using the PyPy toolchain for example, I'd pay to attend. It's also a good idea for it to be a bit high so that people don't simply saunter in but make an active decision, possibly involving a little bit of sacrifice to attend the tutorial. This will keep the audience size limited in size and high in quality. If the instructor is similarly good, it'll be a success.
I don't want to give the idea that when we say "tutorial", it means a talk intended for absolute beginners (usually students) about a topic. I want to convey that it'll be an in depth presentation possibly along with practical sessions to "teach" a topic to an audience.
Finally, if someone genuinely has a cash crunch problem, we can do something about it as a special case rather than lower the fee so that "everyone" can attend.
+1
Anand
_______________________________________________ Inpycon mailing list Inpycon@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/inpycon
_______________________________________________ Inpycon mailing list Inpycon@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/inpycon
-- Cordially, Noufal http://nibrahim.net.in
_______________________________________________ Inpycon mailing list Inpycon@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/inpycon
On Fri, Apr 26, 2013 at 9:03 PM, vijay <vnbang2003@yahoo.com> wrote:
My Take on tutorial 1) Let say it as workshop then tutorial.( we need to even provide list of thing they need to bring to avoid complaint as last year) 2) I would say keep price to 1000 as this itself will be more for student( we need more student to attend). For corporate let make there fee to be 1500 rupees.
I think we can keep the price at Rs. 1500 and have 5 seats with student discount rate of Rs. 1000/- 3) As we have big enough hall why restrict number ?. If we strictly want
to restrict then let have 50 as it will help trainer and pycon both.
It is very difficult to give personal attention when there are more than 15-20 people. So to have a quality workshop, we need to keep the numbers low.
4) About selection of trainer we need to looks for their presentation skill/ previous experience rather then putting criteria no first time.
Absolutely! We need only experienced people with proven speaking history. Anand
Agreed . if no more suggestion, let freeze it. With Thanks Vijay ________________________________ From: Anand Chitipothu <anandology@gmail.com> To: vijay <vnbang2003@yahoo.com>; Mailing list for the PyCon India conference <inpycon@python.org> Sent: Friday, 26 April 2013 9:42 PM Subject: Re: [Inpycon] Tutorials On Fri, Apr 26, 2013 at 9:03 PM, vijay <vnbang2003@yahoo.com> wrote: My Take on tutorial
1) Let say it as workshop then tutorial.( we need to even provide list of thing they need to bring to avoid complaint as last year) 2) I would say keep price to 1000 as this itself will be more for student( we need more student to attend). For corporate let make there fee to be 1500 rupees.
I think we can keep the price at Rs. 1500 and have 5 seats with student discount rate of Rs. 1000/- 3) As we have big enough hall why restrict number ?. If we strictly want to restrict then let have 50 as it will help trainer and pycon both. It is very difficult to give personal attention when there are more than 15-20 people. So to have a quality workshop, we need to keep the numbers low. 4) About selection of trainer we need to looks for their presentation skill/ previous experience rather then putting criteria no first time. Absolutely! We need only experienced people with proven speaking history. Anand
I am all for paying to attend a training session that is of value to me. Unrelated to that, is it okay to pay the trainers? Shouldn't pycon be a pure volunteer effort as per the psf guidelines? I have a vague memory of reading it somewhere. The organizers know best, just clarifying.. Regards, Abdul Muneer -- Follow me on Twitter: @abdulmuneer <http://twitter.com/#%21/abdulmuneer> On Thu, Apr 25, 2013 at 2:22 PM, Noufal Ibrahim <noufal@nibrahim.net.in>wrote:
Bibhas Ch Debnath <me@bibhas.in> writes:
If the target audience of the tutorials are students, *I think* 1.5k/2k for a session would be too much, and will overall discourage them to attend any.
Also, per session charging would mean tickets for sessions, and checking tickets while entering any session. I hope we'll have enough volunteers free for that.
[...]
We need to clarify this.
The price is indicative of the quality of the tutorial. Experienced speaker, time spent on materials and a deep tutorial. It's not necessarily meant for students. If someone good had a tutorial on writing interpreters using the PyPy toolchain for example, I'd pay to attend. It's also a good idea for it to be a bit high so that people don't simply saunter in but make an active decision, possibly involving a little bit of sacrifice to attend the tutorial. This will keep the audience size limited in size and high in quality. If the instructor is similarly good, it'll be a success.
I don't want to give the idea that when we say "tutorial", it means a talk intended for absolute beginners (usually students) about a topic. I want to convey that it'll be an in depth presentation possibly along with practical sessions to "teach" a topic to an audience.
Finally, if someone genuinely has a cash crunch problem, we can do something about it as a special case rather than lower the fee so that "everyone" can attend.
-- Cordially, Noufal http://nibrahim.net.in _______________________________________________ Inpycon mailing list Inpycon@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/inpycon
On Thu, Apr 25, 2013 at 2:27 PM, Abdul Muneer <abdulmuneer@gmail.com> wrote:
I am all for paying to attend a training session that is of value to me. Unrelated to that, is it okay to pay the trainers? Shouldn't pycon be a pure volunteer effort as per the psf guidelines? I have a vague memory of reading it somewhere. The organizers know best, just clarifying..
PyCon India is still pure volunteer effort. The organizers/volunteers don't make any money. Even US PyCon pays honorarium of 1500 USD to each tutorial speaker. Anand
Abdul Muneer <abdulmuneer@gmail.com> writes:
I am all for paying to attend a training session that is of value to me. Unrelated to that, is it okay to pay the trainers? Shouldn't pycon be a pure volunteer effort as per the psf guidelines? I have a vague memory of reading it somewhere. The organizers know best, just clarifying..
It's a honorarium of sorts and it's what the PyCon in the US does. [...] -- Cordially, Noufal http://nibrahim.net.in
On Thu, Apr 25, 2013 at 2:05 PM, Bibhas Ch Debnath <me@bibhas.in> wrote:
If the target audience of the tutorials are students, *I think* 1.5k/2k for a session would be too much, and will overall discourage them to attend any.
Also, per session charging would mean tickets for sessions, and checking
tickets while entering any session. I hope we'll have enough volunteers free for that.
I think we need to have tickets per session. Last year, people signed up for tutorials without worrying about which sessions to attend and joined random sessions. The plan is to force people to decide which session they want to attend, if they want to attend at all. Keeping a fee per session will make sure only the serious people will attend. Yes, we need one assistant per session. We need to work on it. I agree that it might be a bit expensive for students. I'm not sure what to do about it. Shall we consider student discounts? Anand
It occurs to me that we're trying to imitate the format of the US PyCon - a separate tutorial day with tutorials being very different from talks. Some of us who have attended that conference know how it works but I think the intentions are not clear here. I think "workshop" conveys more clearly what we're trying to do. We need to mention this clearly to all the participants in the email we send out as well as in the CFP. Thoughts? Anand Chitipothu <anandology@gmail.com> writes:
On Thu, Apr 25, 2013 at 2:05 PM, Bibhas Ch Debnath <me@bibhas.in> wrote:
If the target audience of the tutorials are students, *I think* 1.5k/2k for a session would be too much, and will overall discourage them to attend any.
Also, per session charging would mean tickets for sessions, and checking
tickets while entering any session. I hope we'll have enough volunteers free for that.
I think we need to have tickets per session. Last year, people signed up for tutorials without worrying about which sessions to attend and joined random sessions. The plan is to force people to decide which session they want to attend, if they want to attend at all. Keeping a fee per session will make sure only the serious people will attend.
Yes, we need one assistant per session. We need to work on it.
I agree that it might be a bit expensive for students. I'm not sure what to do about it. Shall we consider student discounts?
Anand _______________________________________________ Inpycon mailing list Inpycon@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/inpycon
-- Cordially, Noufal http://nibrahim.net.in
On Thu, Apr 25, 2013 at 2:34 PM, Noufal Ibrahim <noufal@nibrahim.net.in>wrote:
It occurs to me that we're trying to imitate the format of the US PyCon - a separate tutorial day with tutorials being very different from talks.
Some of us who have attended that conference know how it works but I think the intentions are not clear here.
I think "workshop" conveys more clearly what we're trying to do. We need to mention this clearly to all the participants in the email we send out as well as in the CFP.
Thoughts?
+1 I was about to reply to your previous email and suggest the same. Anand
Yes, "Workshop" is better. Yes, we need to explicitly make people understand that they are paying for the quality of the content and experience of the speaker. So that there is no confusion. Maybe restrict workshop topic to more things that are hard to learn just by Googling. So that people are more compelled to look forward to an expert opinion. And introducing student discount might help us avoid any negative feedback from student community, just because of the price. On 25 April 2013 14:34, Noufal Ibrahim <noufal@nibrahim.net.in> wrote:
It occurs to me that we're trying to imitate the format of the US PyCon - a separate tutorial day with tutorials being very different from talks.
Some of us who have attended that conference know how it works but I think the intentions are not clear here.
I think "workshop" conveys more clearly what we're trying to do. We need to mention this clearly to all the participants in the email we send out as well as in the CFP.
Thoughts?
Anand Chitipothu <anandology@gmail.com> writes:
On Thu, Apr 25, 2013 at 2:05 PM, Bibhas Ch Debnath <me@bibhas.in> wrote:
If the target audience of the tutorials are students, *I think* 1.5k/2k for a session would be too much, and will overall discourage them to attend any.
Also, per session charging would mean tickets for sessions, and checking
tickets while entering any session. I hope we'll have enough volunteers free for that.
I think we need to have tickets per session. Last year, people signed up for tutorials without worrying about which sessions to attend and joined random sessions. The plan is to force people to decide which session they want to attend, if they want to attend at all. Keeping a fee per session will make sure only the serious people will attend.
Yes, we need one assistant per session. We need to work on it.
I agree that it might be a bit expensive for students. I'm not sure what to do about it. Shall we consider student discounts?
Anand _______________________________________________ Inpycon mailing list Inpycon@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/inpycon
-- Cordially, Noufal http://nibrahim.net.in _______________________________________________ Inpycon mailing list Inpycon@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/inpycon
On Thu, Apr 25, 2013 at 2:34 PM, Noufal Ibrahim <noufal@nibrahim.net.in> wrote:
It occurs to me that we're trying to imitate the format of the US PyCon - a separate tutorial day with tutorials being very different from talks.
Some of us who have attended that conference know how it works but I think the intentions are not clear here.
I think "workshop" conveys more clearly what we're trying to do. We need to mention this clearly to all the participants in the email we send out as well as in the CFP.
Yes, mention it clearly that these are workshops. Kushal
On Thu, Apr 25, 2013 at 12:47 PM, Noufal Ibrahim <noufal@nibrahim.net.in>wrote:
Anand Chitipothu <anandology@gmail.com> writes:
[...]
I'm fine with 20, but I was trying to see if we can meet the costs.
We've booked Nimhans even for the tutorials day. All it has is auditorium with 800, 500, 300 capacity and couple of small rooms and open space. Unfortunately we'll have use the same auditoriums for the training as well. We can use these smaller rooms and convert the open spaces into a tutorial space.
Why can't we use the small rooms for the tutorials? Can't they accomodate 20 people?
The are only 3 small rooms available at NIMHANS. The one in the ground floor might be too small for training session.
Having 20 people sitting in a auditorium of 800 capacity looks a bit weird.
But since we've already booked it, we'll have to live with it.
Assuming that we have 10 tutorials sessions (5 in the morning and 5 in the after noon) and 20 people for session we'll get 10*20*1500 = 3L.
So, 5 tutorial tracks then? One morning session and one afternoon session. Is that the plan?
Yes, thats the plan. We'll have to visit the venue and plan before finalizing the final numbers.
Out of which we are planning to pay half of it to the trainers. So it doesn't even meet the cost of the venue. That was one of the reasons why I though 30 might be a compromise. I agree to your view that we should focus improving the quality than reducing the costs. We can always raise more sponsorships to meet the costs.
I think that's better. Let's not compromise on quality due to budget problems. But since we've already booked the venue, is the money factor *that* important?
I think we are doing well on finances. We don't have to worry much about it.
So, shall we finalize on 20 seats per training session? Is Rs. 1500/- good amount for tutorial fee?
Sounds good to me but if we have a cash crunch, I think raising it to 2k will work too.
I think 1500 should be good enough. Anand
Gave a Tutorial at Pycon Singapore 2012 and here are few observations and thoughts a) Ask for the tutorial slides to be submitted when abstract is being submitted. Helps get fewer and serious speakers submitting proposals, b) Assign 2 Volunteers or those responsible for screening to have a talk over email/phone and check/verify the credentials of those speakers, c) Ask code and development environment, hardware/OS prerequisite details to be submitted atleast 2-3 weeks in advance, d) Advanced Talks saw some companies getting whole team to come and attend when keynote speakers are giving tutorials talks thus encourage them to speak, Just curious How much would people pay for the tutorial talks ?. If we don't have a flat fee how is the fee determined. On 4/25/13, Noufal Ibrahim <noufal@nibrahim.net.in> wrote:
Anand Chitipothu <anandology@gmail.com> writes:
Hello everyone,
We need to roll out CFP soon. Before that we need to finalize how we are planning to have tutorials.
Tutorials didn't work out very well last year. We had newbies submitting tutorials. One tutorial speaker didn't turn up and many were not up to the mark.
One of the ideas to improve it is to have only experienced trainers give these trainings and we pay these trainers for their efforts.
Yes. Tutorials have to be specially screened. No first time tutorials and only people who do training. Not a first timer. They'll also need to submit all their material and slides upfront. This will be possible only if it's already ready.
We can use our discretion for specific cases if we deem it fit but the general rule stands.
A small number of good tutorials (or talks for that matter) is better than a large number of average/bad ones.
Meta Refresh this time had a single track I think and from the vibes, it will well received.
Instead of keeping one flat fee for attending tutorials, we can have fee for each tutorial and people will have to pay for each tutorial that they want to attend. This helps in keep the number of attendees in each training in control and we can plan the logistics better.
I suggest keep Rs. 1500 for each training, limit each training to 30 people and pay about half of that amount to trainer.
30 is kind of high for a tutorial. I suggest dropping it to 20.
[...]
-- Cordially, Noufal http://nibrahim.net.in _______________________________________________ Inpycon mailing list Inpycon@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/inpycon
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participants (9)
-
Abdul Muneer -
Anand Chitipothu -
Ankur Gupta -
Balachandran Sivakumar -
Bibhas Ch Debnath -
konark modi -
Kushal Das -
Noufal Ibrahim -
vijay