On 5 January 2017 at 04:08, Robert Collins <robertc@robertcollins.net> wrote:

One thing: is the warning on stderr really needed? It's pretty poor form for the VM to communicate with the user except in extraordinary circumstances like exception handler of last resort.

I think it's appropriate in this case, as the major problem here is that the assumption of ASCII as the preferred text encoding in the "C" locale is an antiquated Anglo-centric default in *C* that has been superceded by UTF-8 or UTF-16-LE in newer languages and runtimes. While I'm not planning to hold my breath, I kinda hope we'll see a change over the next several years where C.ASCII and POSIX.ASCII are introduced as aliases for the current C and POSIX locales, with those two names subsequently transitioning to become aliases for C.UTF-8 (with the latter being reported as the canonical locale name so fallbacks like the one proposed in PEP 538 don't trigger). So what this PEP is doing is taking CPython and saying that we no longer respect the default locale handling behaviour defined by the C language standards, as we think they're wrong (based on our experiences attempting to use them in a multilingual locale dependent application), and so we're overruling them. If people insist on using the default locale anyway, their Python 3 runtime isn't going to work properly, and it isn't a bug in CPython, it's a bug in their environmental configuration. That gives the rationale for the two different warnings: - overruling the default C locale after decades of respecting it (or at least trying to) is a big deal, and hence worth warning about - Python 3's Unicode support is genuinely unreliable in the C locale (everywhere other than Mac OS X), and hence worth warning about

We have verbose mode, and warning on that would make sense to me.

Folks that encounter Python 3's deficiencies in the C locale (or hit integration issues arising from the new implicit locale reconfiguration behaviour) without a runtime warning of some kind aren't likely to think "I should run Python in verbose mode to learn more about what's going on", they're more likely to think "Python 3 is broken, I'm going to use something else". Cheers, Nick. -- Nick Coghlan | ncoghlan@gmail.com | Brisbane, Australia