Mailman-coders January 2004

mailman-coders@python.org

1 participants
74 discussions

[ mailman-Bugs-885808 ] unsubscribing without password
by SourceForge.net 31 Jan '04

31 Jan '04

Bugs item #885808, was opened at 2004-01-27 16:17 Message generated for change (Comment added) made by bwarsaw You can respond by visiting: https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=100103&aid=885808&group_i… Category: (un)subscribing Group: None >Status: Closed >Resolution: Invalid Priority: 5 Submitted By: Darxus (darxus) Assigned to: Nobody/Anonymous (nobody) Summary: unsubscribing without password Initial Comment: When a user emails list-request@host with "unsubscribe" in the body, please make it respond with a confirmation request that the user only needs only reply to to confirm unsubscription, similar to the way email only subscription works. Similarly, but less important, please add an email command to have mailman report back the user's password, so that web access is not needed if the user has forgotten their password and wishes to use email commands that require it. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >Comment By: Barry A. Warsaw (bwarsaw) Date: 2004-01-30 22:06 Message: Logged In: YES user_id=12800 Both of these features are already in Mailman 2.1. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- You can respond by visiting: https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=100103&aid=885808&group_i…

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[ mailman-Bugs-887806 ] List preferred_language config.
by SourceForge.net 31 Jan '04

31 Jan '04

Bugs item #887806, was opened at 2004-01-30 15:03 Message generated for change (Comment added) made by bwarsaw You can respond by visiting: https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=100103&aid=887806&group_i… Category: configuring/installing Group: 2.1 (stable) >Status: Closed Resolution: None Priority: 5 Submitted By: Chan Min Wai (dcmwai) Assigned to: Nobody/Anonymous (nobody) Summary: List preferred_language config. Initial Comment: I'm using MM 2.1.1 with Redhat 9.0 (rpm packages). When I see MM can use big5 I'm teting it with fun and it give me an problem that I never think of. In state changing the whole/system wide to big5, I've choose to change the preferred_language in one of my list (dailycquote) to be big5. This cause a big problem I can never get into the admin page anymore. not even bin/config_list -o . This is the error message Traceback: Traceback (most recent call last): File "/var/mailman/scripts/driver", line 87, in run_main main() File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/admin.py", line 192, in main show_results(mlist, doc, category, subcat, cgidata) File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/admin.py", line 515, in show_results form.AddItem(show_variables(mlist, category, subcat, cgidata, doc)) File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/admin.py", line 564, in show_variables add_options_table_item(mlist, category, subcat, table, item) File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/admin.py", line 579, in add_options_table_item val = get_item_gui_value(mlist, category, kind, varname, params, extra) File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/admin.py", line 615, in get_item_gui_value value = gui.getValue(mlist, kind, varname, params) File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Gui/General.py", line 446, in getValue return Utils.uncanonstr(mlist.subject_prefix, mlist.preferred_language) File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Utils.py", line 761, in uncanonstr return s.encode(charset) LookupError: unknown encoding: big5 (when accessing the admin page, after keyin password) This is the error from CLI when using config_list. Traceback (most recent call last): File "../../bin/config_list", line 339, in ? main() File "../../bin/config_list", line 332, in main do_output(listname, outfile) File "../../bin/config_list", line 117, in do_output do_list_categories(mlist, k, None, outfp) File "../../bin/config_list", line 166, in do_list_categories value = gui.getValue(mlist, vtype, varname, data[2]) File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Gui/General.py", line 446, in getValue return Utils.uncanonstr(mlist.subject_prefix, mlist.preferred_language) File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Utils.py", line 761, in uncanonstr return s.encode(charset) LookupError: unknown encoding: big5 As you can see it is all about the unknow big5. something I wounder, why would config_list bouther if it is big5... Please help I've think about a solution that is to edit the Db of the mailling list, however, I've never success. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >Comment By: Barry A. Warsaw (bwarsaw) Date: 2004-01-30 22:01 Message: Logged In: YES user_id=12800 Part of your problem is that Python does not come with Asian encodings out of the box. You will have to add Chinese codecs to get anywhere at all. CJKCodecs are probably your best bet: http://cjkpython.i18n.org However, once you get that installed, you may still have problems. The Chinese translations are very much out of date and need a champion to help work at updating them. If you're interested in helping, please contact mailman-i18n(a)python.org. In the meantime, I'm going to close this issue. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- You can respond by visiting: https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=100103&aid=887806&group_i…

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[ mailman-Bugs-878078 ] Unable to select Slevene language
by SourceForge.net 31 Jan '04

31 Jan '04

Bugs item #878078, was opened at 2004-01-16 03:06 Message generated for change (Comment added) made by bwarsaw You can respond by visiting: https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=100103&aid=878078&group_i… Category: Web/CGI Group: 2.1 (stable) >Status: Closed >Resolution: Fixed Priority: 5 Submitted By: Matjaz Kljun (mkljun) Assigned to: Nobody/Anonymous (nobody) Summary: Unable to select Slevene language Initial Comment: When I try to select Slovene language for the mailing list I get this bug report. It's odd that it happens only with Slovene language. If I select Italian or any other language it doesn't complain. Bug in Mailman version 2.1.4 We're sorry, we hit a bug! If you would like to help us identify the problem, please email a copy of this page to the webmaster for this site with a description of what happened. Thanks! Traceback: Traceback (most recent call last): File "/usr/local/mailman/scripts/driver", line 87, in run_main main() File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/admin.py", line 175, in main change_options(mlist, category, subcat, cgidata, doc) File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/admin.py", line 1296, in change_options gui.handleForm(mlist, category, subcat, cgidata, doc) File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Gui/GUIBase.py", line 158, in handleForm self._setValue(mlist, property, val, doc) File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Gui/Language.py", line 120, in _setValue i18n.set_language(val) File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/i18n.py", line 35, in set_language language) File "/usr/local/lib/python2.2/gettext.py", line 248, in translation t = _translations.setdefault(key, class_(open(mofile, 'rb'))) File "/usr/local/lib/python2.2/gettext.py", line 106, in __init__ self._parse(fp) File "/usr/local/lib/python2.2/gettext.py", line 180, in _parse k, v = item.split(':', 1) ValueError: unpack list of wrong size Python information: Variable Value sys.version 2.2.2 (#1, Jan 3 2003, 07:54:31) [GCC 3.2.1 [FreeBSD] 20021119 (release)] sys.executable /usr/local/bin/python sys.prefix /usr/local sys.exec_prefix /usr/local sys.path /usr/local sys.platform freebsd5 Environment variables: Variable Value PATH_INFO /senat/language HTTP_ACCEPT application/x-shockwave-flash,text/xml,application/xml,application/xhtml+xml,text/html;q=0.9,text/plain;q=0.8,image/png,image/jpeg,image/gif;q=0.2,*/*;q=0.1 CONTENT_TYPE application/x-www-form-urlencoded HTTP_REFERER http://www.upr.si/mailman/admin/senat/language SERVER_SOFTWARE Apache/1.3.27 (Unix) PHP/4.2.3 PYTHONPATH /usr/local/mailman SCRIPT_FILENAME /usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin/admin SERVER_ADMIN andy(a)upr.si SCRIPT_NAME /mailman/admin SERVER_SIGNATURE Apache/1.3.27 Server at www.upr.si Port 80 REQUEST_METHOD POST HTTP_HOST www.upr.si HTTP_KEEP_ALIVE 300 SERVER_PROTOCOL HTTP/1.1 QUERY_STRING PATH_TRANSLATED /usr/local/www/data/senat/language REQUEST_URI /mailman/admin/senat/language CONTENT_LENGTH 118 HTTP_ACCEPT_CHARSET ISO-8859-1,utf-8;q=0.7,*;q=0.7 HTTP_USER_AGENT Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.5) Gecko/20031007 HTTP_CONNECTION keep-alive HTTP_COOKIE senat+admin=280200000069efdd0640732800000061346663386238616161633832333165333334373536393030393639393637303161346334396162 SERVER_NAME www.upr.si REMOTE_ADDR 193.2.97.204 REMOTE_PORT 2967 HTTP_ACCEPT_LANGUAGE en-us,en;q=0.5 UNIQUE_ID QAbeNMECFgMAAC4QCZ8 SERVER_PORT 80 GATEWAY_INTERFACE CGI/1.1 HTTP_ACCEPT_ENCODING gzip,deflate SERVER_ADDR 193.2.22.3 DOCUMENT_ROOT /usr/local/www/data ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >Comment By: Barry A. Warsaw (bwarsaw) Date: 2004-01-30 21:52 Message: Logged In: YES user_id=12800 I see you took out the line that says "#-#-#-#-# mailman.po (PACKAGE VERSION) #-#-#-#-#\n" Since that line seems bogus, I removed it in CVS. Hopefully that'll do the trick for you. Note that this won't crash for you if you use Python 2.2.3 or Python 2.3, because the gettext.py module was made robust enough to ignore these errors. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Comment By: Matjaz Kljun (mkljun) Date: 2004-01-19 07:43 Message: Logged In: YES user_id=952444 The header of mailman.po file of slovene language in version 2.1.4 is currupted. I copied the header of english version and inserted the slovene info and it works fine: # Mailman msgid "" msgstr "" "Project-Id-Version: mailman_new_poprn" "POT-Creation-Date: Sat Dec 13 14:40:28 2003n" "PO-Revision-Date: 2003-09-30 11:18+0200n" "Last-Translator: Urska Colner <urska.colner(a)agenda.si>n" "Language-Team: Sloven??ina <sl(a)li.org>n" "MIME-Version: 1.0n" "Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-2n" "Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bitn" "X-Generator: KBabel 1.0.1n" Thanks for your help ;) M ---------------------------------------------------------------------- You can respond by visiting: https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=100103&aid=878078&group_i…

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[ mailman-Bugs-887806 ] List preferred_language config.
by SourceForge.net 30 Jan '04

30 Jan '04

Bugs item #887806, was opened at 2004-01-31 04:03 Message generated for change (Tracker Item Submitted) made by Item Submitter You can respond by visiting: https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=100103&aid=887806&group_i… Category: configuring/installing Group: 2.1 (stable) Status: Open Resolution: None Priority: 5 Submitted By: Chan Min Wai (dcmwai) Assigned to: Nobody/Anonymous (nobody) Summary: List preferred_language config. Initial Comment: I'm using MM 2.1.1 with Redhat 9.0 (rpm packages). When I see MM can use big5 I'm teting it with fun and it give me an problem that I never think of. In state changing the whole/system wide to big5, I've choose to change the preferred_language in one of my list (dailycquote) to be big5. This cause a big problem I can never get into the admin page anymore. not even bin/config_list -o . This is the error message Traceback: Traceback (most recent call last): File "/var/mailman/scripts/driver", line 87, in run_main main() File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/admin.py", line 192, in main show_results(mlist, doc, category, subcat, cgidata) File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/admin.py", line 515, in show_results form.AddItem(show_variables(mlist, category, subcat, cgidata, doc)) File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/admin.py", line 564, in show_variables add_options_table_item(mlist, category, subcat, table, item) File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/admin.py", line 579, in add_options_table_item val = get_item_gui_value(mlist, category, kind, varname, params, extra) File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/admin.py", line 615, in get_item_gui_value value = gui.getValue(mlist, kind, varname, params) File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Gui/General.py", line 446, in getValue return Utils.uncanonstr(mlist.subject_prefix, mlist.preferred_language) File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Utils.py", line 761, in uncanonstr return s.encode(charset) LookupError: unknown encoding: big5 (when accessing the admin page, after keyin password) This is the error from CLI when using config_list. Traceback (most recent call last): File "../../bin/config_list", line 339, in ? main() File "../../bin/config_list", line 332, in main do_output(listname, outfile) File "../../bin/config_list", line 117, in do_output do_list_categories(mlist, k, None, outfp) File "../../bin/config_list", line 166, in do_list_categories value = gui.getValue(mlist, vtype, varname, data[2]) File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Gui/General.py", line 446, in getValue return Utils.uncanonstr(mlist.subject_prefix, mlist.preferred_language) File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Utils.py", line 761, in uncanonstr return s.encode(charset) LookupError: unknown encoding: big5 As you can see it is all about the unknow big5. something I wounder, why would config_list bouther if it is big5... Please help I've think about a solution that is to edit the Db of the mailling list, however, I've never success. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- You can respond by visiting: https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=100103&aid=887806&group_i…

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[ mailman-Patches-755045 ] discard all button for pending posts administration
by SourceForge.net 28 Jan '04

28 Jan '04

Patches item #755045, was opened at 2003-06-16 06:22 Message generated for change (Comment added) made by pabs3 You can respond by visiting: https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=300103&aid=755045&group_i… Category: list administration Group: Mailman 2.1 Status: Open Resolution: None Priority: 5 Submitted By: matze (indygena) Assigned to: Nobody/Anonymous (nobody) Summary: discard all button for pending posts administration Initial Comment: adds a 'discard all' button at the bottom of the pending posts page, usefull for lists with high spam rate. not sure if this feature is of general interest, people in the projects where we applied this patch feel confortable with it. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Comment By: Pabs (pabs3) Date: 2004-01-28 19:15 Message: Logged In: YES user_id=35028 ppl interested in this may also want the default action patch: http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=886124&group_id=10… ---------------------------------------------------------------------- You can respond by visiting: https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=300103&aid=755045&group_i…

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[ mailman-Patches-886124 ] default action for the admin interface
by SourceForge.net 28 Jan '04

28 Jan '04

Patches item #886124, was opened at 2004-01-28 18:56 Message generated for change (Tracker Item Submitted) made by Item Submitter You can respond by visiting: https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=300103&aid=886124&group_i… Category: list administration Group: Mailman 2.1 Status: Open Resolution: None Priority: 5 Submitted By: Pabs (pabs3) Assigned to: Nobody/Anonymous (nobody) Summary: default action for the admin interface Initial Comment: this patch changes the admindb interface such that each subscribe/held message has an extra action that can be taken: default. You then choose at the bottom what the default action will be (defer, reject, discard etc) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- You can respond by visiting: https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=300103&aid=886124&group_i…

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[ mailman-Bugs-885808 ] unsubscribing without password
by SourceForge.net 27 Jan '04

27 Jan '04

Bugs item #885808, was opened at 2004-01-27 21:17 Message generated for change (Tracker Item Submitted) made by Item Submitter You can respond by visiting: https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=100103&aid=885808&group_i… Category: (un)subscribing Group: None Status: Open Resolution: None Priority: 5 Submitted By: Darxus (darxus) Assigned to: Nobody/Anonymous (nobody) Summary: unsubscribing without password Initial Comment: When a user emails list-request@host with "unsubscribe" in the body, please make it respond with a confirmation request that the user only needs only reply to to confirm unsubscription, similar to the way email only subscription works. Similarly, but less important, please add an email command to have mailman report back the user's password, so that web access is not needed if the user has forgotten their password and wishes to use email commands that require it. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- You can respond by visiting: https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=100103&aid=885808&group_i…

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[ mailman-Bugs-871050 ] Uncought runner exception: Empty module name
by SourceForge.net 27 Jan '04

27 Jan '04

Bugs item #871050, was opened at 2004-01-05 17:03 Message generated for change (Comment added) made by zebaoth You can respond by visiting: https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=100103&aid=871050&group_i… Category: mail delivery Group: 2.1 (stable) Status: Open Resolution: None Priority: 5 Submitted By: Fernando Barajas (fbarajas) Assigned to: Nobody/Anonymous (nobody) Summary: Uncought runner exception: Empty module name Initial Comment: Hi! I run several lists on mailman, and all of the lists are working OK, but suddently one of them (named fc_general) stopped working, and I get the following in logs/error every time I try to post to the fc_general list: Jan 05 11:03:48 2004 (8451) Uncaught runner exception: Empty module name Jan 05 11:03:48 2004 (8451) Traceback (most recent call last): File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 105, in _oneloop self._onefile(msg, msgdata) File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 155, in _onefile keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata) File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line 130, in _dispose more = self._dopipeline(mlist, msg, msgdata, pipeline) File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line 153, in _dopipeline sys.modules[modname].process(mlist, msg, msgdata) File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/ToDigest.py", line 89, in process send_digests(mlist, mboxfp) File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/ToDigest.py", line 130, in send_digests send_i18n_digests(mlist, mboxfp) File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/ToDigest.py", line 303, in send_i18n_dige sts msg = scrubber(mlist, msg) File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/Scrubber.py", line 308, in process t = t.encode(charset, 'replace') File "/var/tmp/python2-2.2.3- root/usr/lib/python2.2/encodings/__init__.py", li ne 51, in search_function ValueError: Empty module name Jan 05 11:03:48 2004 (8451) SHUNTING: 1073322225.130398+2e61b88872c9af343bce1927 de7443b7500f2622 The rest of my lists work correctly. I was using 2.1.2, but today I upgraded to 2.1.4 and it's still failing. What can I do? Thanks! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Comment By: Jochen Witte (zebaoth) Date: 2004-01-27 11:09 Message: Logged In: YES user_id=565663 I use 2.1.3 and have the same problem. Any solution in sight? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Comment By: Marcel Meyer (meyerm) Date: 2004-01-14 10:56 Message: Logged In: YES user_id=66911 Hi, was this somehow resolved?? I just found to have the same problems! What can I do that the messages (the shunt directory is now 1,5 MB big! [not the contents of the dir, but the dir inode itself...!!] ) are written into the archives without loosing anything? unshunt just puts them back into the shunt directory. Is there some patch - anything? Thanks a lot Marcel ---------------------------------------------------------------------- You can respond by visiting: https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=100103&aid=871050&group_i…

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[ mailman-Patches-885098 ] Information leak when issuing a subscribe request
by SourceForge.net 26 Jan '04

26 Jan '04

Patches item #885098, was opened at 2004-01-26 22:13 Message generated for change (Tracker Item Submitted) made by Item Submitter You can respond by visiting: https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=300103&aid=885098&group_i… Category: list administration Group: Mailman 2.1 Status: Open Resolution: None Priority: 5 Submitted By: Tom Coerkamp (tomcoerkamp) Assigned to: Nobody/Anonymous (nobody) Summary: Information leak when issuing a subscribe request Initial Comment: When a request to listname-request is sent with a command "subscribe address=foo(a)bar.com", the errors are returned to the sender of the command rather than the address it relates to. If the subscriber is already subscribed to the list, an error message is returned to the sender of the request with that error, thus informing the sender of the request the subscription status of the requested email address. Similarly if the subscription request is successful and no confirmation is required, the sender of the request is notified of this. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- You can respond by visiting: https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=300103&aid=885098&group_i…

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[ mailman-Patches-871062 ] A MemberAdaptor for LDAP-based membership
by SourceForge.net 26 Jan '04

26 Jan '04

Patches item #871062, was opened at 2004-01-05 12:09 Message generated for change (Comment added) made by fubarobfusco You can respond by visiting: https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=300103&aid=871062&group_i… Category: list administration Group: Mailman 2.1 Status: Open Resolution: None Priority: 5 Submitted By: K. A. Krueger (fubarobfusco) Assigned to: Nobody/Anonymous (nobody) Summary: A MemberAdaptor for LDAP-based membership Initial Comment: This is a module, LDAPMemberships, which extends MemberAdaptor to support membership lists based on a search in an enterprise LDAP directory. With this module, you can make mailing lists which, rather than having a list of member addresses stored in the list, query your LDAP server for member addresses whenever necessary. For instance, if you wish to have a mailing list of all the Vice Presidents in your company, you can express this as an LDAP search: "(title=Vice President*)" and create a mailing list which performs this search and delivers mail to the resulting user accounts when a message is sent to it. This way, rather than manually adding new Vice Presidents to the mailing list, you can simply have Human Resources update the LDAP records, and the change will immediately take effect for the mailing list. Mailman lists with LDAP-based membership can still have moderators, list policies, and the other usual features of Mailman lists. There are a few missing features; notably: 1. There is no bounce processing. 2. There are no per-user preferences. 3. The Web interface still allows you to try setting user preferences, but if you do you will get a stack thrown at you. (Only the "readable" interface of MemberAdaptor is implemented.) 4. The LDAP settings of a list (e.g. LDAP server and search string) are only administrable by editing its "extend.py" file, not over the Web. 5. There is no digest mode. To use this module, you must have the "ldap" Python module installed (aka "python-ldap"). Then just put LDAPMemberships.py in the "Mailman" directory (~mailman/Mailman), create a new list, and write an "extend.py" file in the list directory like so: ##### from Mailman.LDAPMemberships import LDAPMemberships def extend(list): ldap = LDAPMemberships(list) ldap.ldapsearch = "(title=Vice President*)" # members search string ldap.ldapserver = "ldap.example.net" # your enterprise LDAP server ldap.ldapbasedn = "dc=Example dc=net" # your LDAP base DN ldap.ldapbinddn = '' # a bind DN which can read people's 'mail' field ldap.ldappasswd = '' # the password for the bind DN list._memberadaptor = ldap ##### This module has been tested at my site and is in production on a Mailman 2.1.2 installation. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >Comment By: K. A. Krueger (fubarobfusco) Date: 2004-01-26 15:35 Message: Logged In: YES user_id=944208 Yet another new version (0.3) of LDAPMemberships.py. This one fixes some ambiguities with LDAP record handling, particularly for users with multiple "cn" values, and those who send mail as their "mailalternateaddress" field address rather than their "mail" field. If anyone is actually using this, please email me and let me know :) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Comment By: K. A. Krueger (fubarobfusco) Date: 2004-01-20 11:53 Message: Logged In: YES user_id=944208 I've uploaded a new version (0.2) of LDAPMemberships.py. This one is some ungodly number of times faster, as it does not do redundant LDAP queries in a single load. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Comment By: K. A. Krueger (fubarobfusco) Date: 2004-01-05 12:18 Message: Logged In: YES user_id=944208 Er. SF ate the indentation on my "extend.py" example in the patch description. All of the lines after "def extend(list):" are meant to be indented once. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- You can respond by visiting: https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=300103&aid=871062&group_i…

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Mailman-coders January 2004