Mailman 3 January 2008 - Mailman-coders

[ mailman-Bugs-1874279 ] Mass Subscriptions names
by SourceForge.net Jan. 22, 2008

Jan. 22, 2008

Bugs item #1874279, was opened at 2008-01-18 09:33 Message generated for change (Comment added) made by jidanni You can respond by visiting: https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=100103&aid=1874279&group_… Please note that this message will contain a full copy of the comment thread, including the initial issue submission, for this request, not just the latest update. Category: Web/CGI Group: 2.1 alpha Status: Open Resolution: None Priority: 5 Private: No Submitted By: jidanni (jidanni) Assigned to: Nobody/Anonymous (nobody) Summary: Mass Subscriptions names Initial Comment: Today we look at members/add, Mass Subscriptions. Please change "Enter one address per line below..." to "Enter Bob Clodsworth <blob(a)example.com> or just blob(a)example.com, one per line:" Else no one can guess how to get names in. P.S., with site language = English, don't dream of entering and UTF-8 or &# 31309 ; stuff. You'll get an error. ASCII is assumed, dangnabit! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >Comment By: jidanni (jidanni) Date: 2008-01-23 04:36 Message: Logged In: YES user_id=1971011 Originator: YES Holy moly, on the Mass Subscriptions page, if you leave the notify administrator box checked, it _really does_ send one notification for EACH subscriber! Subscribe 50 people, and the administrator gets 50 EMAILs about it, not just one email with the results about all 50 names. Who knows what pleasure is in store on the mass delete page. You have my permission to split this off into a separate bug. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Comment By: jidanni (jidanni) Date: 2008-01-23 04:29 Message: Logged In: YES user_id=1971011 Originator: YES By the way, on the mass subscription page, if one puts addresses both in the entry box, and in the contents of the file to be read in, one ends up with at least one garbled address... do warn or catch or say on the page that it's OK to use both, then process correctly. I did not test the mass deletions page. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Comment By: jidanni (jidanni) Date: 2008-01-19 14:56 Message: Logged In: YES user_id=1971011 Originator: YES And even with site language zh_TW, on the mass subscription results page one sees UTF-8 becomes: * 積丹尼 <jidanni(a)jidanni.org> though apparently internally it is still UTF-8 at evidenced on other pages. P.S., the zh_TW 'send me my passwd' email sends raw % mess: 我們歡迎任何問題或建議 ! 請 email 給 %(adminaddr)s. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- You can respond by visiting: https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=100103&aid=1874279&group_…

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[ mailman-Bugs-1874279 ] Mass Subscriptions names
by SourceForge.net Jan. 22, 2008

Jan. 22, 2008

Bugs item #1874279, was opened at 2008-01-18 09:33 Message generated for change (Comment added) made by jidanni You can respond by visiting: https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=100103&aid=1874279&group_… Please note that this message will contain a full copy of the comment thread, including the initial issue submission, for this request, not just the latest update. Category: Web/CGI Group: 2.1 alpha Status: Open Resolution: None Priority: 5 Private: No Submitted By: jidanni (jidanni) Assigned to: Nobody/Anonymous (nobody) Summary: Mass Subscriptions names Initial Comment: Today we look at members/add, Mass Subscriptions. Please change "Enter one address per line below..." to "Enter Bob Clodsworth <blob(a)example.com> or just blob(a)example.com, one per line:" Else no one can guess how to get names in. P.S., with site language = English, don't dream of entering and UTF-8 or &# 31309 ; stuff. You'll get an error. ASCII is assumed, dangnabit! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >Comment By: jidanni (jidanni) Date: 2008-01-23 04:29 Message: Logged In: YES user_id=1971011 Originator: YES By the way, on the mass subscription page, if one puts addresses both in the entry box, and in the contents of the file to be read in, one ends up with at least one garbled address... do warn or catch or say on the page that it's OK to use both, then process correctly. I did not test the mass deletions page. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Comment By: jidanni (jidanni) Date: 2008-01-19 14:56 Message: Logged In: YES user_id=1971011 Originator: YES And even with site language zh_TW, on the mass subscription results page one sees UTF-8 becomes: * 積丹尼 <jidanni(a)jidanni.org> though apparently internally it is still UTF-8 at evidenced on other pages. P.S., the zh_TW 'send me my passwd' email sends raw % mess: 我們歡迎任何問題或建議 ! 請 email 給 %(adminaddr)s. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- You can respond by visiting: https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=100103&aid=1874279&group_…

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[ mailman-Bugs-1866486 ] validate HTML and email produced
by SourceForge.net Jan. 22, 2008

Jan. 22, 2008

Bugs item #1866486, was opened at 2008-01-08 10:40 Message generated for change (Comment added) made by jidanni You can respond by visiting: https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=100103&aid=1866486&group_… Please note that this message will contain a full copy of the comment thread, including the initial issue submission, for this request, not just the latest update. Category: Web/CGI Group: None Status: Open Resolution: None Priority: 5 Private: No Submitted By: jidanni (jidanni) Assigned to: Nobody/Anonymous (nobody) Summary: validate HTML and email produced Initial Comment: In your test suite add for all languages for all HTML pages run them thru a HTML validator for all administrative email sent run them thru e.g., SpamAssassin, to detect SUBJECT_NEEDS_ENCODING etc. embarrassment. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >Comment By: jidanni (jidanni) Date: 2008-01-23 03:55 Message: Logged In: YES user_id=1971011 Originator: YES And as you will find your HTML is jam packed with _very hard to maintain presentational blibber_, causing a billion validator errors, meaning it is just by shear luck that people hopefully see what your thought maybe they might see in their browsers at all, therefore I recommend you forget your FrontPage Express style tag soup mess, and try HTML Strict (http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/strict.dtd). Never mind all those colors and tables. Get in the habit of thinking from the point of all users: _accessibility_. Here's an example of how I repaired your disastrous listinfo.html. I couldn't use strict.dtd as the stuff I include of yours isn't strict. Also you insist on sticking a TABLE inside an ADDRESS, in mm-mailman-footer, so short of just hardcoding the whole thing, it will never be valid HTML. Anyway I'm just telling you, not volunteering to help, but just telling you, that aren't these <H1> and <H2>'s easier to maintain than that TABLE tag barf that you contracted Plotzworth Whoopie Pages Web Designers for? P.S., Before making one more release, make sure what you release is valid HTML. Does Wikipedia pass the validator? Yes. It is quite bananas to just emit TAG JUMBLE GAMBLE HTML with FINGER CROSSED to people's browsers. Anyway, just some <h2>'s and <p>'s: <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/loose.dtd"> <html lang="zh-tw"> <head> <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content= "text/html; charset=utf-8"> <meta http-equiv="Content-Language" content="zh-tw"> <title><mm-list-name> 相關資訊</title> </head> <body> <h1><mm-list-name> -- <mm-list-description></h1> <P>關於<mm-list-name>論壇</P> <mm-subscribe-form-start><mm-form-end> <p><mm-list-info></p> <p>欲查本論壇舊信，請逕洽 <mm-archive><mm-list-name>檔案保管處</MM-Archive>。 <mm-restricted-list-message></p> <h2>使用<mm-list-name></h2> <P>欲在論壇發言，請寄到 <a href="mailto:<MM-Posting-Addr>"><mm-posting-addr></a>。 <h2>加入<mm-list-name>論壇</h2> <P>請於聚會現場報名。  <h2><mm-list-name>訂閱者</h2> <P><mm-options-form-start><mm-editing-options><mm-form-end> <mm-mailman-footer> </body> </html> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- You can respond by visiting: https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=100103&aid=1866486&group_…

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[ mailman-Bugs-1868873 ] deceptive listinfo "to post a message..."
by SourceForge.net Jan. 20, 2008

Jan. 20, 2008

Bugs item #1868873, was opened at 2008-01-10 16:41 Message generated for change (Comment added) made by jimpop You can respond by visiting: https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=100103&aid=1868873&group_… Please note that this message will contain a full copy of the comment thread, including the initial issue submission, for this request, not just the latest update. Category: security/privacy Group: None Status: Open Resolution: None Priority: 5 Private: No Submitted By: jidanni (jidanni) Assigned to: Nobody/Anonymous (nobody) Summary: deceptive listinfo "to post a message..." Initial Comment: Allow me to introduce the primary bug of all, the one that is certainly the first one encounters upon first contact with mailman as a mere user. He sees on the listinfo web page: "To post a message to all the list members, send email to ..." Which means TO HIM, the innocent victim, that "posting is wide open. What ever you send will get full executive treatment and be sent to all members and the archive forthwith". When in fact it really means "Yes, we say 'to post', but to post is not to receive, necessarily. I.E., depending on policies, your message might 1. go to /dev/null, 2. go to /dev/null with a notice back to you, 3. go into a queue for moderator approval, 4. as 3 but with a notice back to you, 5.... and it all depends on the configuration, which the moderator/administrator has elected not to make public, i.e., one of 1,2,3,4... will happen, and we could tell you here, but we won't. So what happens, is due to the *deceptive* message "To post a message to all the list members, send email to ..." the user posts and waits several days not knowing what is happening, while his burning question lies unseen who knows where. If subscription is required to post, than say "subscription is required to post". If you are not willing to mention that subscription is or is not required, in an effort to thwart spammers, then say "subscription may be required to post". Anyway, the software is very aware of just what requirements there are to post, so it should say them there on listinfo, unless the administrator has checked "[x]Obfuscate posting requirements on listinfo page". Whereupon say "subscription may be required to post, but the administrator has chosen not to reveal what they may be." Anyway, in no case continue saying "To post a message to all the list members, send email to ..." as it looks like the current message. If the list is really wide open, say "Membership not required to post"... Don't just reply to this bug saying to ask the administrator to edit the HTML files for his site, as the forwarding in http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=199195 probably thought. Tell them to edit the HTML if checking the above [x] box is not enough. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Comment By: Jim Popovitch (jimpop) Date: 2008-01-20 00:43 Message: Logged In: YES user_id=3142 Originator: NO > No. There should just be a choice on the administrator panel, In a perfect world, yes. However, it's a pretty minor issue, that *does* have a work around. BTW, your use of "deceptive" in the Subject is just a poor choice of wording, and probably seen as an insult by Mailman developers. I understand your emotion, but I don't understand your expectations. Best wishes, -Jim P. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Comment By: jidanni (jidanni) Date: 2008-01-19 23:22 Message: Logged In: YES user_id=1971011 Originator: YES > Why not just ask the administrator to edit the HTML *templates* for his site? No. There should just be a choice on the administrator panel, Be honest about things []Yes [X]No. (Actually a group of choices, one for each thing.) [X]No by default, for security. That would cover 99% of the cases, keep people from mucking with the HTML, and make them conscious of the deception. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Comment By: Jim Popovitch (jimpop) Date: 2008-01-19 20:05 Message: Logged In: YES user_id=3142 Originator: NO Why not just ask the administrator to edit the HTML *templates* for his site? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Comment By: jidanni (jidanni) Date: 2008-01-17 15:43 Message: Logged In: YES user_id=1971011 Originator: YES The following statement also is one where the computer knows very well what the configuration is, but is too lazy to check, even if the administrator wanted it to. So add a configuration item for this item: gloss over the facts to fool spammers [] or give the real deal [x]. "Your subscription request has been received, and will soon be acted upon. Depending on the configuration of this mailing list, your subscription request may have to be first confirmed by you via email, or approved by the list moderator. If confirmation is required, you will soon get a confirmation email which contains further instructions." ---------------------------------------------------------------------- You can respond by visiting: https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=100103&aid=1868873&group_…

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[ mailman-Bugs-1868873 ] deceptive listinfo "to post a message..."
by SourceForge.net Jan. 20, 2008

Jan. 20, 2008

Bugs item #1868873, was opened at 2008-01-11 05:41 Message generated for change (Comment added) made by jidanni You can respond by visiting: https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=100103&aid=1868873&group_… Please note that this message will contain a full copy of the comment thread, including the initial issue submission, for this request, not just the latest update. Category: security/privacy Group: None Status: Open Resolution: None Priority: 5 Private: No Submitted By: jidanni (jidanni) Assigned to: Nobody/Anonymous (nobody) Summary: deceptive listinfo "to post a message..." Initial Comment: Allow me to introduce the primary bug of all, the one that is certainly the first one encounters upon first contact with mailman as a mere user. He sees on the listinfo web page: "To post a message to all the list members, send email to ..." Which means TO HIM, the innocent victim, that "posting is wide open. What ever you send will get full executive treatment and be sent to all members and the archive forthwith". When in fact it really means "Yes, we say 'to post', but to post is not to receive, necessarily. I.E., depending on policies, your message might 1. go to /dev/null, 2. go to /dev/null with a notice back to you, 3. go into a queue for moderator approval, 4. as 3 but with a notice back to you, 5.... and it all depends on the configuration, which the moderator/administrator has elected not to make public, i.e., one of 1,2,3,4... will happen, and we could tell you here, but we won't. So what happens, is due to the *deceptive* message "To post a message to all the list members, send email to ..." the user posts and waits several days not knowing what is happening, while his burning question lies unseen who knows where. If subscription is required to post, than say "subscription is required to post". If you are not willing to mention that subscription is or is not required, in an effort to thwart spammers, then say "subscription may be required to post". Anyway, the software is very aware of just what requirements there are to post, so it should say them there on listinfo, unless the administrator has checked "[x]Obfuscate posting requirements on listinfo page". Whereupon say "subscription may be required to post, but the administrator has chosen not to reveal what they may be." Anyway, in no case continue saying "To post a message to all the list members, send email to ..." as it looks like the current message. If the list is really wide open, say "Membership not required to post"... Don't just reply to this bug saying to ask the administrator to edit the HTML files for his site, as the forwarding in http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=199195 probably thought. Tell them to edit the HTML if checking the above [x] box is not enough. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >Comment By: jidanni (jidanni) Date: 2008-01-20 12:22 Message: Logged In: YES user_id=1971011 Originator: YES > Why not just ask the administrator to edit the HTML *templates* for his site? No. There should just be a choice on the administrator panel, Be honest about things []Yes [X]No. (Actually a group of choices, one for each thing.) [X]No by default, for security. That would cover 99% of the cases, keep people from mucking with the HTML, and make them conscious of the deception. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Comment By: Jim Popovitch (jimpop) Date: 2008-01-20 09:05 Message: Logged In: YES user_id=3142 Originator: NO Why not just ask the administrator to edit the HTML *templates* for his site? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Comment By: jidanni (jidanni) Date: 2008-01-18 04:43 Message: Logged In: YES user_id=1971011 Originator: YES The following statement also is one where the computer knows very well what the configuration is, but is too lazy to check, even if the administrator wanted it to. So add a configuration item for this item: gloss over the facts to fool spammers [] or give the real deal [x]. "Your subscription request has been received, and will soon be acted upon. Depending on the configuration of this mailing list, your subscription request may have to be first confirmed by you via email, or approved by the list moderator. If confirmation is required, you will soon get a confirmation email which contains further instructions." ---------------------------------------------------------------------- You can respond by visiting: https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=100103&aid=1868873&group_…

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[ mailman-Bugs-1875187 ] Cannot deselect Engish
by SourceForge.net Jan. 20, 2008

Jan. 20, 2008

Bugs item #1875187, was opened at 2008-01-19 14:54 Message generated for change (Comment added) made by jidanni You can respond by visiting: https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=100103&aid=1875187&group_… Please note that this message will contain a full copy of the comment thread, including the initial issue submission, for this request, not just the latest update. Category: Web/CGI Group: 2.1 (stable) Status: Open Resolution: None Priority: 5 Private: No Submitted By: jidanni (jidanni) Assigned to: Nobody/Anonymous (nobody) Summary: Cannot deselect Engish Initial Comment: Discovery: cannot turn off English in admin.cgi/.../language, no matter even if another language is the preferred language. Well, then at least don't make English click-offable. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >Comment By: jidanni (jidanni) Date: 2008-01-20 12:10 Message: Logged In: YES user_id=1971011 Originator: YES That's nice but for installations like Dreamhost's, where a list administrator has no access to the configuration beyond Mailman's web panel, he has no way to keep users out of the English pages, which he must then customize also along with the ones of the language he already customized. So be sure to stop restricting this restriction. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Comment By: Mark Sapiro (msapiro) Date: 2008-01-20 04:38 Message: Logged In: YES user_id=1123998 Originator: NO It isn't English you can't turn off. It is the language defined as DEFAULT_SERVER_LANGUAGE. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- You can respond by visiting: https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=100103&aid=1875187&group_…

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[ mailman-Bugs-1868873 ] deceptive listinfo "to post a message..."
by SourceForge.net Jan. 20, 2008

Jan. 20, 2008

Bugs item #1868873, was opened at 2008-01-10 16:41 Message generated for change (Comment added) made by jimpop You can respond by visiting: https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=100103&aid=1868873&group_… Please note that this message will contain a full copy of the comment thread, including the initial issue submission, for this request, not just the latest update. Category: security/privacy Group: None Status: Open Resolution: None Priority: 5 Private: No Submitted By: jidanni (jidanni) Assigned to: Nobody/Anonymous (nobody) Summary: deceptive listinfo "to post a message..." Initial Comment: Allow me to introduce the primary bug of all, the one that is certainly the first one encounters upon first contact with mailman as a mere user. He sees on the listinfo web page: "To post a message to all the list members, send email to ..." Which means TO HIM, the innocent victim, that "posting is wide open. What ever you send will get full executive treatment and be sent to all members and the archive forthwith". When in fact it really means "Yes, we say 'to post', but to post is not to receive, necessarily. I.E., depending on policies, your message might 1. go to /dev/null, 2. go to /dev/null with a notice back to you, 3. go into a queue for moderator approval, 4. as 3 but with a notice back to you, 5.... and it all depends on the configuration, which the moderator/administrator has elected not to make public, i.e., one of 1,2,3,4... will happen, and we could tell you here, but we won't. So what happens, is due to the *deceptive* message "To post a message to all the list members, send email to ..." the user posts and waits several days not knowing what is happening, while his burning question lies unseen who knows where. If subscription is required to post, than say "subscription is required to post". If you are not willing to mention that subscription is or is not required, in an effort to thwart spammers, then say "subscription may be required to post". Anyway, the software is very aware of just what requirements there are to post, so it should say them there on listinfo, unless the administrator has checked "[x]Obfuscate posting requirements on listinfo page". Whereupon say "subscription may be required to post, but the administrator has chosen not to reveal what they may be." Anyway, in no case continue saying "To post a message to all the list members, send email to ..." as it looks like the current message. If the list is really wide open, say "Membership not required to post"... Don't just reply to this bug saying to ask the administrator to edit the HTML files for his site, as the forwarding in http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=199195 probably thought. Tell them to edit the HTML if checking the above [x] box is not enough. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Comment By: Jim Popovitch (jimpop) Date: 2008-01-19 20:05 Message: Logged In: YES user_id=3142 Originator: NO Why not just ask the administrator to edit the HTML *templates* for his site? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Comment By: jidanni (jidanni) Date: 2008-01-17 15:43 Message: Logged In: YES user_id=1971011 Originator: YES The following statement also is one where the computer knows very well what the configuration is, but is too lazy to check, even if the administrator wanted it to. So add a configuration item for this item: gloss over the facts to fool spammers [] or give the real deal [x]. "Your subscription request has been received, and will soon be acted upon. Depending on the configuration of this mailing list, your subscription request may have to be first confirmed by you via email, or approved by the list moderator. If confirmation is required, you will soon get a confirmation email which contains further instructions." ---------------------------------------------------------------------- You can respond by visiting: https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=100103&aid=1868873&group_…

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[ mailman-Bugs-1875187 ] Cannot deselect Engish
by SourceForge.net Jan. 19, 2008

Jan. 19, 2008

Bugs item #1875187, was opened at 2008-01-18 22:54 Message generated for change (Comment added) made by msapiro You can respond by visiting: https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=100103&aid=1875187&group_… Please note that this message will contain a full copy of the comment thread, including the initial issue submission, for this request, not just the latest update. Category: Web/CGI Group: 2.1 (stable) Status: Open Resolution: None Priority: 5 Private: No Submitted By: jidanni (jidanni) Assigned to: Nobody/Anonymous (nobody) Summary: Cannot deselect Engish Initial Comment: Discovery: cannot turn off English in admin.cgi/.../language, no matter even if another language is the preferred language. Well, then at least don't make English click-offable. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >Comment By: Mark Sapiro (msapiro) Date: 2008-01-19 12:38 Message: Logged In: YES user_id=1123998 Originator: NO It isn't English you can't turn off. It is the language defined as DEFAULT_SERVER_LANGUAGE. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- You can respond by visiting: https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=100103&aid=1875187&group_…

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[ mailman-Bugs-1874279 ] Mass Subscriptions names
by SourceForge.net Jan. 19, 2008

Jan. 19, 2008

Bugs item #1874279, was opened at 2008-01-18 09:33 Message generated for change (Comment added) made by jidanni You can respond by visiting: https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=100103&aid=1874279&group_… Please note that this message will contain a full copy of the comment thread, including the initial issue submission, for this request, not just the latest update. Category: Web/CGI Group: 2.1 alpha Status: Open Resolution: None Priority: 5 Private: No Submitted By: jidanni (jidanni) Assigned to: Nobody/Anonymous (nobody) Summary: Mass Subscriptions names Initial Comment: Today we look at members/add, Mass Subscriptions. Please change "Enter one address per line below..." to "Enter Bob Clodsworth <blob(a)example.com> or just blob(a)example.com, one per line:" Else no one can guess how to get names in. P.S., with site language = English, don't dream of entering and UTF-8 or &# 31309 ; stuff. You'll get an error. ASCII is assumed, dangnabit! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >Comment By: jidanni (jidanni) Date: 2008-01-19 14:56 Message: Logged In: YES user_id=1971011 Originator: YES And even with site language zh_TW, on the mass subscription results page one sees UTF-8 becomes: * 積丹尼 <jidanni(a)jidanni.org> though apparently internally it is still UTF-8 at evidenced on other pages. P.S., the zh_TW 'send me my passwd' email sends raw % mess: 我們歡迎任何問題或建議 ! 請 email 給 %(adminaddr)s. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- You can respond by visiting: https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=100103&aid=1874279&group_…

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[ mailman-Bugs-1875187 ] Cannot deselect Engish
by SourceForge.net Jan. 19, 2008

Jan. 19, 2008

Bugs item #1875187, was opened at 2008-01-19 14:54 Message generated for change (Tracker Item Submitted) made by Item Submitter You can respond by visiting: https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=100103&aid=1875187&group_… Please note that this message will contain a full copy of the comment thread, including the initial issue submission, for this request, not just the latest update. Category: Web/CGI Group: 2.1 (stable) Status: Open Resolution: None Priority: 5 Private: No Submitted By: jidanni (jidanni) Assigned to: Nobody/Anonymous (nobody) Summary: Cannot deselect Engish Initial Comment: Discovery: cannot turn off English in admin.cgi/.../language, no matter even if another language is the preferred language. Well, then at least don't make English click-offable. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- You can respond by visiting: https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=100103&aid=1875187&group_…

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[ mailman-Bugs-1874265 ] gzip step doesn't respect UTF-8
by SourceForge.net Jan. 18, 2008

Jan. 18, 2008

Bugs item #1874265, was opened at 2008-01-18 09:11 Message generated for change (Comment added) made by jidanni You can respond by visiting: https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=100103&aid=1874265&group_… Please note that this message will contain a full copy of the comment thread, including the initial issue submission, for this request, not just the latest update. Category: Web/CGI Group: 2.1 alpha Status: Open Resolution: None Priority: 5 Private: No Submitted By: jidanni (jidanni) Assigned to: Nobody/Anonymous (nobody) Summary: gzip step doesn't respect UTF-8 Initial Comment: With the site languge set to *English*, UTF-8 Chinese in message *bodies* like 這句 looks great in the archives, except when they are made into .gz's whereupon they become "??" ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >Comment By: jidanni (jidanni) Date: 2008-01-18 11:09 Message: Logged In: YES user_id=1971011 Originator: YES Don't believe me, have a look at http://tossug.org/pipermail/hojia/ Also look at the disaster of http://tossug.org/mailman/listinfo/hojia that you force charset of ASCII in the HTTP headers, and the user has not used &# codes. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- You can respond by visiting: https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=100103&aid=1874265&group_…

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[ mailman-Bugs-1867275 ] more exact than List-Archive
by SourceForge.net Jan. 18, 2008

Jan. 18, 2008

Bugs item #1867275, was opened at 2008-01-09 07:13 Message generated for change (Comment added) made by jidanni You can respond by visiting: https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=100103&aid=1867275&group_… Please note that this message will contain a full copy of the comment thread, including the initial issue submission, for this request, not just the latest update. Category: Pipermail Group: None Status: Open Resolution: None Priority: 5 Private: No Submitted By: jidanni (jidanni) Assigned to: Nobody/Anonymous (nobody) Summary: more exact than List-Archive Initial Comment: Gentlemen, $ w3m -dump http://article.gmane.org/gmane.science.linguistics.wikipedia.technical/3329… |grep Archive List-Archive: <http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikitech-l> Archived-At: <http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.science.linguistics.wikipedia.technical/33…> This means: mailman could, if it tried harder, put a header into the message with the exact URL of where it archived the message at, instead of just its current "go look thru the heap, Holmes" Archived-At header. Instead users will quote a 3rd party (gmane.org here), which might go belly up at any time, when referring to the article. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >Comment By: jidanni (jidanni) Date: 2008-01-18 10:52 Message: Logged In: YES user_id=1971011 Originator: YES I see http://wiki.list.org/display/DEV/Stable+URLs you are aware of the issue. Good. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- You can respond by visiting: https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=100103&aid=1867275&group_…

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[ mailman-Bugs-1874279 ] Mass Subscriptions names
by SourceForge.net Jan. 18, 2008

Jan. 18, 2008

Bugs item #1874279, was opened at 2008-01-18 09:33 Message generated for change (Tracker Item Submitted) made by Item Submitter You can respond by visiting: https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=100103&aid=1874279&group_… Please note that this message will contain a full copy of the comment thread, including the initial issue submission, for this request, not just the latest update. Category: Web/CGI Group: 2.1 alpha Status: Open Resolution: None Priority: 5 Private: No Submitted By: jidanni (jidanni) Assigned to: Nobody/Anonymous (nobody) Summary: Mass Subscriptions names Initial Comment: Today we look at members/add, Mass Subscriptions. Please change "Enter one address per line below..." to "Enter Bob Clodsworth <blob(a)example.com> or just blob(a)example.com, one per line:" Else no one can guess how to get names in. P.S., with site language = English, don't dream of entering and UTF-8 or &# 31309 ; stuff. You'll get an error. ASCII is assumed, dangnabit! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- You can respond by visiting: https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=100103&aid=1874279&group_…

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[ mailman-Bugs-1874265 ] gzip step doesn't respect UTF-8
by SourceForge.net Jan. 18, 2008

Jan. 18, 2008

Bugs item #1874265, was opened at 2008-01-18 09:11 Message generated for change (Tracker Item Submitted) made by Item Submitter You can respond by visiting: https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=100103&aid=1874265&group_… Please note that this message will contain a full copy of the comment thread, including the initial issue submission, for this request, not just the latest update. Category: Web/CGI Group: 2.1 alpha Status: Open Resolution: None Priority: 5 Private: No Submitted By: jidanni (jidanni) Assigned to: Nobody/Anonymous (nobody) Summary: gzip step doesn't respect UTF-8 Initial Comment: With the site languge set to *English*, UTF-8 Chinese in message *bodies* like 這句 looks great in the archives, except when they are made into .gz's whereupon they become "??" ---------------------------------------------------------------------- You can respond by visiting: https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=100103&aid=1874265&group_…

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[ mailman-Bugs-1868873 ] deceptive listinfo "to post a message..."
by SourceForge.net Jan. 17, 2008

Jan. 17, 2008

Bugs item #1868873, was opened at 2008-01-11 05:41 Message generated for change (Comment added) made by jidanni You can respond by visiting: https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=100103&aid=1868873&group_… Please note that this message will contain a full copy of the comment thread, including the initial issue submission, for this request, not just the latest update. Category: security/privacy Group: None Status: Open Resolution: None Priority: 5 Private: No Submitted By: jidanni (jidanni) Assigned to: Nobody/Anonymous (nobody) Summary: deceptive listinfo "to post a message..." Initial Comment: Allow me to introduce the primary bug of all, the one that is certainly the first one encounters upon first contact with mailman as a mere user. He sees on the listinfo web page: "To post a message to all the list members, send email to ..." Which means TO HIM, the innocent victim, that "posting is wide open. What ever you send will get full executive treatment and be sent to all members and the archive forthwith". When in fact it really means "Yes, we say 'to post', but to post is not to receive, necessarily. I.E., depending on policies, your message might 1. go to /dev/null, 2. go to /dev/null with a notice back to you, 3. go into a queue for moderator approval, 4. as 3 but with a notice back to you, 5.... and it all depends on the configuration, which the moderator/administrator has elected not to make public, i.e., one of 1,2,3,4... will happen, and we could tell you here, but we won't. So what happens, is due to the *deceptive* message "To post a message to all the list members, send email to ..." the user posts and waits several days not knowing what is happening, while his burning question lies unseen who knows where. If subscription is required to post, than say "subscription is required to post". If you are not willing to mention that subscription is or is not required, in an effort to thwart spammers, then say "subscription may be required to post". Anyway, the software is very aware of just what requirements there are to post, so it should say them there on listinfo, unless the administrator has checked "[x]Obfuscate posting requirements on listinfo page". Whereupon say "subscription may be required to post, but the administrator has chosen not to reveal what they may be." Anyway, in no case continue saying "To post a message to all the list members, send email to ..." as it looks like the current message. If the list is really wide open, say "Membership not required to post"... Don't just reply to this bug saying to ask the administrator to edit the HTML files for his site, as the forwarding in http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=199195 probably thought. Tell them to edit the HTML if checking the above [x] box is not enough. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >Comment By: jidanni (jidanni) Date: 2008-01-18 04:43 Message: Logged In: YES user_id=1971011 Originator: YES The following statement also is one where the computer knows very well what the configuration is, but is too lazy to check, even if the administrator wanted it to. So add a configuration item for this item: gloss over the facts to fool spammers [] or give the real deal [x]. "Your subscription request has been received, and will soon be acted upon. Depending on the configuration of this mailing list, your subscription request may have to be first confirmed by you via email, or approved by the list moderator. If confirmation is required, you will soon get a confirmation email which contains further instructions." ---------------------------------------------------------------------- You can respond by visiting: https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=100103&aid=1868873&group_…

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[ mailman-Bugs-1861600 ] whole HTML templates approach wrong
by SourceForge.net Jan. 17, 2008

Jan. 17, 2008

Bugs item #1861600, was opened at 2008-01-01 13:01 Message generated for change (Comment added) made by jidanni You can respond by visiting: https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=100103&aid=1861600&group_… Please note that this message will contain a full copy of the comment thread, including the initial issue submission, for this request, not just the latest update. Category: Web/CGI Group: 2.1 beta Status: Open Resolution: None Priority: 5 Private: No Submitted By: jidanni (jidanni) Assigned to: Nobody/Anonymous (nobody) Summary: whole HTML templates approach wrong Initial Comment: Gentlemen, observe the deformed child among $ grep -ihc button mailman-2.1.10b1/templates/*/options.html|xargs 26 26 26 26 26 28 26 25 26 22 26 26 26 26 28 26 26 25 26 27 26 26 26 26 26 27 26 26 26 26 26 26 26 26 14 Yes at the very end, 14. Might as well just $ iconv -t gb2312 templates/zh_CN/options.html|iconv -f gb2312 -t big5| iconv -f big5 > templates/zh_TW/options.html It's better than a form without a submit button. Who knows how many other parts of mailman lack an eye here, a leg there... ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >Comment By: jidanni (jidanni) Date: 2008-01-17 11:13 Message: Logged In: YES user_id=1971011 Originator: YES I find putting & # 12345 ; style entities into the boxes on admin.cgi/.../general may be a workaround for getting past the charset stuff. Haven't tested ZH_tw blobs in EN email, or seen what will become of zh_TW archives when switching the _monolithic_ site language to EN. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Comment By: jidanni (jidanni) Date: 2008-01-17 09:57 Message: Logged In: YES user_id=1971011 Originator: YES So I thought maybe for my zh_TW site, I shall change the site language to English, to avoid running all the 93 files with all kinds of missing code in them, here on Dreamhost's installation where even me, site administrator, has only the web interface. (I downloaded the source and am looking at it on my home machine, not Dreamhost's.) I thought just maybe I could at least put some Chinese in some of the four pages that we are allowed to edit via the web interface. But then I see the HTTP header already has the ascii character set defined, an as you know that overrides anything I can put in the body. Yes, I could have the zh_TW versions shown to users by default, and even edit them first to my hearts content, but that means I must change the site language to zh_TW, consigning myself to running the 93 defective parts. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Comment By: jidanni (jidanni) Date: 2008-01-17 09:17 Message: Logged In: YES user_id=1971011 Originator: YES Gentlemen, I have figured out how to use the poorly documented transcheck command, and the winner is.... $ for i in $(cd messages;ls); do echo -n $i:\ ; bin/transcheck -q $i;done ar: 15 warnings in 2 files ca: 51 warnings in 4 files cs: 2 warnings in 1 files da: 17 warnings in 2 files de: 38 warnings in 10 files es: 40 warnings in 6 files ja: 0 warnings in 0 files ... sv: 50 warnings in 2 files tr: 21 warnings in 2 files uk: 17 warnings in 2 files vi: 9 warnings in 3 files zh_CN: 31 warnings in 4 files zh_TW: 93 warnings in 10 files That's right, zh_TW, another gold medal. Actually it appears your whole approach is wrong. With entire .html and .txt files to be translated, there will always be missing buttons, etc. If instead using just strings in .po files, if a message isn't translated, at least the English will be shown to the user. Anyway how terrible to have unlucky languages with missing buttons. Let's see how MediaWiki does this. There is just one template, and the stings are translated only. Doesn't that make more sense? You program's functionality shouldn't vary by language, but just the strings that describe the functionality. If one wants to customize, then one should customize the template, affecting all languages. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- You can respond by visiting: https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=100103&aid=1861600&group_…

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[ mailman-Bugs-1873392 ] Can't change users' reminders from web
by SourceForge.net Jan. 17, 2008

Jan. 17, 2008

Bugs item #1873392, was opened at 2008-01-17 10:32 Message generated for change (Tracker Item Submitted) made by Item Submitter You can respond by visiting: https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=100103&aid=1873392&group_… Please note that this message will contain a full copy of the comment thread, including the initial issue submission, for this request, not just the latest update. Category: Web/CGI Group: 2.1 beta Status: Open Resolution: None Priority: 5 Private: No Submitted By: jidanni (jidanni) Assigned to: Nobody/Anonymous (nobody) Summary: Can't change users' reminders from web Initial Comment: On the (English) page entitled "Members mailing list administration Membership Management... Section" There is no button to adjust users' monthly password reminders. I bet one must loging as each users one by one to turn them off. All I have is the web interface on Dreamhost. I bet there's more items too that one can't change from the admin web pages. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- You can respond by visiting: https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=100103&aid=1873392&group_…

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[ mailman-Bugs-1861600 ] whole HTML templates approach wrong
by SourceForge.net Jan. 17, 2008

Jan. 17, 2008

Bugs item #1861600, was opened at 2008-01-01 13:01 Message generated for change (Comment added) made by jidanni You can respond by visiting: https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=100103&aid=1861600&group_… Please note that this message will contain a full copy of the comment thread, including the initial issue submission, for this request, not just the latest update. Category: Web/CGI Group: 2.1 beta Status: Open Resolution: None Priority: 5 Private: No Submitted By: jidanni (jidanni) Assigned to: Nobody/Anonymous (nobody) Summary: whole HTML templates approach wrong Initial Comment: Gentlemen, observe the deformed child among $ grep -ihc button mailman-2.1.10b1/templates/*/options.html|xargs 26 26 26 26 26 28 26 25 26 22 26 26 26 26 28 26 26 25 26 27 26 26 26 26 26 27 26 26 26 26 26 26 26 26 14 Yes at the very end, 14. Might as well just $ iconv -t gb2312 templates/zh_CN/options.html|iconv -f gb2312 -t big5| iconv -f big5 > templates/zh_TW/options.html It's better than a form without a submit button. Who knows how many other parts of mailman lack an eye here, a leg there... ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >Comment By: jidanni (jidanni) Date: 2008-01-17 09:57 Message: Logged In: YES user_id=1971011 Originator: YES So I thought maybe for my zh_TW site, I shall change the site language to English, to avoid running all the 93 files with all kinds of missing code in them, here on Dreamhost's installation where even me, site administrator, has only the web interface. (I downloaded the source and am looking at it on my home machine, not Dreamhost's.) I thought just maybe I could at least put some Chinese in some of the four pages that we are allowed to edit via the web interface. But then I see the HTTP header already has the ascii character set defined, an as you know that overrides anything I can put in the body. Yes, I could have the zh_TW versions shown to users by default, and even edit them first to my hearts content, but that means I must change the site language to zh_TW, consigning myself to running the 93 defective parts. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Comment By: jidanni (jidanni) Date: 2008-01-17 09:17 Message: Logged In: YES user_id=1971011 Originator: YES Gentlemen, I have figured out how to use the poorly documented transcheck command, and the winner is.... $ for i in $(cd messages;ls); do echo -n $i:\ ; bin/transcheck -q $i;done ar: 15 warnings in 2 files ca: 51 warnings in 4 files cs: 2 warnings in 1 files da: 17 warnings in 2 files de: 38 warnings in 10 files es: 40 warnings in 6 files ja: 0 warnings in 0 files ... sv: 50 warnings in 2 files tr: 21 warnings in 2 files uk: 17 warnings in 2 files vi: 9 warnings in 3 files zh_CN: 31 warnings in 4 files zh_TW: 93 warnings in 10 files That's right, zh_TW, another gold medal. Actually it appears your whole approach is wrong. With entire .html and .txt files to be translated, there will always be missing buttons, etc. If instead using just strings in .po files, if a message isn't translated, at least the English will be shown to the user. Anyway how terrible to have unlucky languages with missing buttons. Let's see how MediaWiki does this. There is just one template, and the stings are translated only. Doesn't that make more sense? You program's functionality shouldn't vary by language, but just the strings that describe the functionality. If one wants to customize, then one should customize the template, affecting all languages. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- You can respond by visiting: https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=100103&aid=1861600&group_…

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[ mailman-Bugs-1873369 ] trailing slash on listinfo.cgi
by SourceForge.net Jan. 17, 2008

Jan. 17, 2008

Bugs item #1873369, was opened at 2008-01-17 09:42 Message generated for change (Settings changed) made by jidanni You can respond by visiting: https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=100103&aid=1873369&group_… Please note that this message will contain a full copy of the comment thread, including the initial issue submission, for this request, not just the latest update. Category: Web/CGI Group: 2.1 beta Status: Open Resolution: None >Priority: 1 Private: No Submitted By: jidanni (jidanni) Assigned to: Nobody/Anonymous (nobody) Summary: trailing slash on listinfo.cgi Initial Comment: On listinfo.cgi there are links to http://lists.example.org/admin.cgi/members-example.org <--lacks slash, less efficient http://lists.example.org/listinfo.cgi/members-example.org http://lists.example.org/private.cgi/members-example.org/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- You can respond by visiting: https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=100103&aid=1873369&group_…

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[ mailman-Bugs-1873369 ] trailing slash on listinfo.cgi
by SourceForge.net Jan. 17, 2008

Jan. 17, 2008

Bugs item #1873369, was opened at 2008-01-17 09:42 Message generated for change (Tracker Item Submitted) made by Item Submitter You can respond by visiting: https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=100103&aid=1873369&group_… Please note that this message will contain a full copy of the comment thread, including the initial issue submission, for this request, not just the latest update. Category: Web/CGI Group: 2.1 beta Status: Open Resolution: None Priority: 5 Private: No Submitted By: jidanni (jidanni) Assigned to: Nobody/Anonymous (nobody) Summary: trailing slash on listinfo.cgi Initial Comment: On listinfo.cgi there are links to http://lists.example.org/admin.cgi/members-example.org <--lacks slash, less efficient http://lists.example.org/listinfo.cgi/members-example.org http://lists.example.org/private.cgi/members-example.org/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- You can respond by visiting: https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=100103&aid=1873369&group_…

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[ mailman-Bugs-1861600 ] whole HTML templates approach wrong
by SourceForge.net Jan. 17, 2008

Jan. 17, 2008

Bugs item #1861600, was opened at 2008-01-01 13:01 Message generated for change (Comment added) made by jidanni You can respond by visiting: https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=100103&aid=1861600&group_… Please note that this message will contain a full copy of the comment thread, including the initial issue submission, for this request, not just the latest update. Category: Web/CGI Group: 2.1 beta Status: Open Resolution: None Priority: 5 Private: No Submitted By: jidanni (jidanni) Assigned to: Nobody/Anonymous (nobody) >Summary: whole HTML templates approach wrong Initial Comment: Gentlemen, observe the deformed child among $ grep -ihc button mailman-2.1.10b1/templates/*/options.html|xargs 26 26 26 26 26 28 26 25 26 22 26 26 26 26 28 26 26 25 26 27 26 26 26 26 26 27 26 26 26 26 26 26 26 26 14 Yes at the very end, 14. Might as well just $ iconv -t gb2312 templates/zh_CN/options.html|iconv -f gb2312 -t big5| iconv -f big5 > templates/zh_TW/options.html It's better than a form without a submit button. Who knows how many other parts of mailman lack an eye here, a leg there... ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >Comment By: jidanni (jidanni) Date: 2008-01-17 09:17 Message: Logged In: YES user_id=1971011 Originator: YES Gentlemen, I have figured out how to use the poorly documented transcheck command, and the winner is.... $ for i in $(cd messages;ls); do echo -n $i:\ ; bin/transcheck -q $i;done ar: 15 warnings in 2 files ca: 51 warnings in 4 files cs: 2 warnings in 1 files da: 17 warnings in 2 files de: 38 warnings in 10 files es: 40 warnings in 6 files ja: 0 warnings in 0 files ... sv: 50 warnings in 2 files tr: 21 warnings in 2 files uk: 17 warnings in 2 files vi: 9 warnings in 3 files zh_CN: 31 warnings in 4 files zh_TW: 93 warnings in 10 files That's right, zh_TW, another gold medal. Actually it appears your whole approach is wrong. With entire .html and .txt files to be translated, there will always be missing buttons, etc. If instead using just strings in .po files, if a message isn't translated, at least the English will be shown to the user. Anyway how terrible to have unlucky languages with missing buttons. Let's see how MediaWiki does this. There is just one template, and the stings are translated only. Doesn't that make more sense? You program's functionality shouldn't vary by language, but just the strings that describe the functionality. If one wants to customize, then one should customize the template, affecting all languages. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- You can respond by visiting: https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=100103&aid=1861600&group_…

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[ mailman-Bugs-1870246 ] sync_members just failes if even 1 email address is invalid
by SourceForge.net Jan. 13, 2008

Jan. 13, 2008

Bugs item #1870246, was opened at 2008-01-13 18:40 Message generated for change (Tracker Item Submitted) made by Item Submitter You can respond by visiting: https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=100103&aid=1870246&group_… Please note that this message will contain a full copy of the comment thread, including the initial issue submission, for this request, not just the latest update. Category: command line scripts Group: 2.1 (stable) Status: Open Resolution: None Priority: 5 Private: No Submitted By: Tony Mobily (mercmobily) Assigned to: Nobody/Anonymous (nobody) Summary: sync_members just failes if even 1 email address is invalid Initial Comment: Hi, Right now, sync_members just fails if there are invalid email addresses. I wrote a Drupal module that uses mailman to send emails. The problem I have is that I am using sync_members automatically, and it would be 100 times easier for me if the invalid email addresses were ignored, rather than the whole script failing. The code is: # first filter out any invalid addresses filemembers = email.Utils.getaddresses(filemembers) invalid = 0 for name, addr in filemembers: try: Utils.ValidateEmail(addr) except Errors.EmailAddressError: print _('Invalid : %(addr)30s') invalid = 1 if invalid: print _('You must fix the preceding invalid addresses first.') sys.exit(1) I think having a command line option for this would be fantastic - something like "-i" ("ignore invalid email addresses"), which if selected makes sure that the script simply ignores invalid email addresses, and basically "always works" (unless of course the mailing list name is wrong, etc.). I don't know python at all (shame on me), or I swear I'd be submitting a patch (I am a Drupal developer, and submit patches whenever I can). Thank you!!! Merc. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- You can respond by visiting: https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=100103&aid=1870246&group_…

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[ mailman-Bugs-1867285 ] FAQ: really need root?
by SourceForge.net Jan. 10, 2008

Jan. 10, 2008

Bugs item #1867285, was opened at 2008-01-09 07:33 Message generated for change (Comment added) made by jidanni You can respond by visiting: https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=100103&aid=1867285&group_… Please note that this message will contain a full copy of the comment thread, including the initial issue submission, for this request, not just the latest update. Category: documentation Group: None Status: Open Resolution: None Priority: 5 Private: No Submitted By: jidanni (jidanni) Assigned to: Nobody/Anonymous (nobody) Summary: FAQ: really need root? Initial Comment: Add to FAQ: Q: Surely I could install mailman on my web shared hosting plan without root. I'll just use --with-username=$USER --with-groupname=`id -g` ... --with-cgi-ext=.cgi etc. and then use my .procmailrc to redirect what comes to the extra mailboxes my hosting plan allows me to make... A: Ah but Holmes, you have neglected a fundamental... ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >Comment By: jidanni (jidanni) Date: 2008-01-11 05:47 Message: Logged In: YES user_id=1971011 Originator: YES Add to Q: And for sending mail I can use /usr/sbin/sendmail -i -f ... ---------------------------------------------------------------------- You can respond by visiting: https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=100103&aid=1867285&group_…

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[ mailman-Bugs-1868873 ] deceptive listinfo "to post a message..."
by SourceForge.net Jan. 10, 2008

Jan. 10, 2008

Bugs item #1868873, was opened at 2008-01-11 05:41 Message generated for change (Tracker Item Submitted) made by Item Submitter You can respond by visiting: https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=100103&aid=1868873&group_… Please note that this message will contain a full copy of the comment thread, including the initial issue submission, for this request, not just the latest update. Category: security/privacy Group: None Status: Open Resolution: None Priority: 5 Private: No Submitted By: jidanni (jidanni) Assigned to: Nobody/Anonymous (nobody) Summary: deceptive listinfo "to post a message..." Initial Comment: Allow me to introduce the primary bug of all, the one that is certainly the first one encounters upon first contact with mailman as a mere user. He sees on the listinfo web page: "To post a message to all the list members, send email to ..." Which means TO HIM, the innocent victim, that "posting is wide open. What ever you send will get full executive treatment and be sent to all members and the archive forthwith". When in fact it really means "Yes, we say 'to post', but to post is not to receive, necessarily. I.E., depending on policies, your message might 1. go to /dev/null, 2. go to /dev/null with a notice back to you, 3. go into a queue for moderator approval, 4. as 3 but with a notice back to you, 5.... and it all depends on the configuration, which the moderator/administrator has elected not to make public, i.e., one of 1,2,3,4... will happen, and we could tell you here, but we won't. So what happens, is due to the *deceptive* message "To post a message to all the list members, send email to ..." the user posts and waits several days not knowing what is happening, while his burning question lies unseen who knows where. If subscription is required to post, than say "subscription is required to post". If you are not willing to mention that subscription is or is not required, in an effort to thwart spammers, then say "subscription may be required to post". Anyway, the software is very aware of just what requirements there are to post, so it should say them there on listinfo, unless the administrator has checked "[x]Obfuscate posting requirements on listinfo page". Whereupon say "subscription may be required to post, but the administrator has chosen not to reveal what they may be." Anyway, in no case continue saying "To post a message to all the list members, send email to ..." as it looks like the current message. If the list is really wide open, say "Membership not required to post"... Don't just reply to this bug saying to ask the administrator to edit the HTML files for his site, as the forwarding in http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=199195 probably thought. Tell them to edit the HTML if checking the above [x] box is not enough. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- You can respond by visiting: https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=100103&aid=1868873&group_…

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[ mailman-Bugs-1867289 ] administration language married to list language
by SourceForge.net Jan. 8, 2008

Jan. 8, 2008

Bugs item #1867289, was opened at 2008-01-09 07:42 Message generated for change (Tracker Item Submitted) made by Item Submitter You can respond by visiting: https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=100103&aid=1867289&group_… Please note that this message will contain a full copy of the comment thread, including the initial issue submission, for this request, not just the latest update. Category: None Group: None Status: Open Resolution: None Priority: 5 Private: No Submitted By: jidanni (jidanni) Assigned to: Nobody/Anonymous (nobody) Summary: administration language married to list language Initial Comment: Various administrators of the same list would like to interact with the web interface in various languages, independent of the list settings... Take like Wikipedia, one can browse and administer ZH.wikipedia.org in English, by using EN in one's preferences. But with mailman, no no no, you'll be administering in zh_TW, because your list is a zh_TW list. "What could be simpler?" :-( ---------------------------------------------------------------------- You can respond by visiting: https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=100103&aid=1867289&group_…

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