Bugs item #1868873, was opened at 2008-01-10 16:41 Message generated for change (Comment added) made by jimpop You can respond by visiting: https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=100103&aid=1868873&group_id=103 Please note that this message will contain a full copy of the comment thread, including the initial issue submission, for this request, not just the latest update. Category: security/privacy Group: None Status: Open Resolution: None Priority: 5 Private: No Submitted By: jidanni (jidanni) Assigned to: Nobody/Anonymous (nobody) Summary: deceptive listinfo "to post a message..." Initial Comment: Allow me to introduce the primary bug of all, the one that is certainly the first one encounters upon first contact with mailman as a mere user. He sees on the listinfo web page: "To post a message to all the list members, send email to ..." Which means TO HIM, the innocent victim, that "posting is wide open. What ever you send will get full executive treatment and be sent to all members and the archive forthwith". When in fact it really means "Yes, we say 'to post', but to post is not to receive, necessarily. I.E., depending on policies, your message might 1. go to /dev/null, 2. go to /dev/null with a notice back to you, 3. go into a queue for moderator approval, 4. as 3 but with a notice back to you, 5.... and it all depends on the configuration, which the moderator/administrator has elected not to make public, i.e., one of 1,2,3,4... will happen, and we could tell you here, but we won't. So what happens, is due to the *deceptive* message "To post a message to all the list members, send email to ..." the user posts and waits several days not knowing what is happening, while his burning question lies unseen who knows where. If subscription is required to post, than say "subscription is required to post". If you are not willing to mention that subscription is or is not required, in an effort to thwart spammers, then say "subscription may be required to post". Anyway, the software is very aware of just what requirements there are to post, so it should say them there on listinfo, unless the administrator has checked "[x]Obfuscate posting requirements on listinfo page". Whereupon say "subscription may be required to post, but the administrator has chosen not to reveal what they may be." Anyway, in no case continue saying "To post a message to all the list members, send email to ..." as it looks like the current message. If the list is really wide open, say "Membership not required to post"... Don't just reply to this bug saying to ask the administrator to edit the HTML files for his site, as the forwarding in http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=199195 probably thought. Tell them to edit the HTML if checking the above [x] box is not enough. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Comment By: Jim Popovitch (jimpop) Date: 2008-01-19 20:05 Message: Logged In: YES user_id=3142 Originator: NO Why not just ask the administrator to edit the HTML *templates* for his site? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Comment By: jidanni (jidanni) Date: 2008-01-17 15:43 Message: Logged In: YES user_id=1971011 Originator: YES The following statement also is one where the computer knows very well what the configuration is, but is too lazy to check, even if the administrator wanted it to. So add a configuration item for this item: gloss over the facts to fool spammers [] or give the real deal [x]. "Your subscription request has been received, and will soon be acted upon. Depending on the configuration of this mailing list, your subscription request may have to be first confirmed by you via email, or approved by the list moderator. If confirmation is required, you will soon get a confirmation email which contains further instructions." ---------------------------------------------------------------------- You can respond by visiting: https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=100103&aid=1868873&group_id=103