Mailman 3 November 2003 - Mailman-Developers

python 2.2.3 -> python 2.3.2 upgrade and mailman 2.1.2
by PieterB 10 Nov '03

10 Nov '03

Hi, I upgraded my Python from 2.2.3 to Python 2.3.2. Now Mailman's Qrunner sometimes gives the following error(s): python in free(): warning: page is already free python in free(): warning: page is already free Should I recompile/install/upgrade mailman when upgrading the python version? Are there any issues in upgrading mailman 2.1.2 -> mailman 2.1.3 (UPGRADING file doesn't say so). Are there any known problems with mailman 2.1.3 and python 2.3.x INSTALL-file mentions: "Currently Python 2.1.3 or Python 2.2.1 is recommended" Maybe it's good to mention the Python dependencies and preferred version on http://www.list.org/download.html Regards, Pieter BTW: I noticed The GNU site doesn't have the latest mailman available. -- http://zwiki.org/PieterB

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Re: [Mailman-Announce] A book on Mailman? Opinions, please.
by iane＠sussex.ac.uk 10 Nov '03

10 Nov '03

--On Friday, November 7, 2003 11:44 am -0800 Martin Streicher <martin.streicher(a)apress.com> wrote: > Dear Mailman Users: > > My name is Martin Streicher, and I am the Editor for Open Source books at > Apress (http://www.apress.com). I am considering publishing a book on > Mailman and would like to hear your opinions. > > Briefly, the book would be very focused on Mailman, would be about > 150-200 pages, and would sell for less than $20. The book would be very > hands-on, something you would keep in your lap and work through as you > installed and configured Mailman with the MTA and web browser of your > choice. Then the book would switch to a problem-solution section, useful > for when you are troubleshooting or adding features to your > configuration, or trying to help users manage their Mailman accounts. > > My questions: > > 1/ Is such a book needed, and what is it's potential? Probably not. It shouldn't be that hard to configure it. > 2/ If it is needed, what information should it include? What problems > come up time and again? > > 3/ Should it only be about Mailman, or should it include ezmlm, Mailman, > and Majordomo? Mailman only. No point in having a book covering mailing list managers that I don't use. However, a feature comparison might be useful. > 4/ Finally, what other topics in system administration might fit this > format -- short, project-oriented, solutions -- well? Examples > Thanks for your consideration and I look forward to your replies. Please > send replies to martin(a)apress.com. I will post a summary of all replies > so as to share the info, but not clutter the list in the interim. > > Martin > > > _______________________________________________ > Mailman-announce mailing list > Mailman-announce(a)python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-announce > Member address: iane(a)sussex.ac.uk > Unsubscribe: > http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-announce/iane%40sussex.ac. > uk -- Ian Eiloart Servers Team Sussex University ITS

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digest & personalization
by Ricardo Kustner 10 Nov '03

10 Nov '03

Hi, I'm going to need digest personalization to be able to properly handle those wonderful AOL Client Spam reports for my digest members. The FAQ says "digest deliveries can't be personalized currently". Has this been in the works yet? will it need really big changes in the code? I haven't been following mailman development lately but I might be able to work on this if it's not too complicated :) Ricardo.

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Re: [Mailman-Developers] Mysql MemberAdaptor, v1.27
by Kyrian 08 Nov '03

08 Nov '03

All, I was planning to, but I couldn't work out where to put it either. More research (or another API hook in mailman?) will be required methinks... In theory MySQL should time them out after a while, but that's a bit of an unacceptable risk, really, since people might have lists that regularly get mailed to, and hence call the __init function, thus connection-flooding MySQL and causing it all to break down and go to hell. I also found a stupid bug in the Mysql bounce handling(again) which I've fixed and uploaded. The guy using this thing was supposed to give me a heads-up before using it on his list this morning, but didn't, so I can only assume it's all been going okay so far, since he didn't complain at me about it not working... ;-) K. On Sat, 8 Nov 2003 04:29:20 +0800 "Yuan, Cain" <cain.yuan(a)intel.com> wrote: > Hi Kev, > It's very cool to do a ping() before using those connections. > One more question here: where are you planning to add the code > for close those connections when mailman is ready to quit > (sometimes we need to shutdown mailman manually and of cause we > did not want to leave those connection in the system)? Python > has a __init() but seems no __exit functions( correct me if I > am wrong). > > Regards, > > Cain > > > -----Original Message----- > From: mailman-developers-bounces+cain.yuan=intel.com(a)python.org > [mailto:mailman-developers-bounces+cain.yuan=intel.com@python.org]On > Behalf Of Kyrian (List) Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2003 1:40 AM > To: mailman-developers(a)python.org > Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Mysql MemberAdaptor, v1.27 > > > > > Hi Kev, > > I had a look at the patch and have some questions here: why you > > establish a connection to MySQL and then close it in each > > function? AFAIK this will put much presure on MySQL if there > > are some people to subscribe/unscribe from the list. Why not > > just establish a ststic link to MySQL and then use it every time > > you need to access the DB? > > > > Cain > > In response to this, and the atrocious performance that I just > observed sending to a 60,000 or so member list, I've implemented a > connection sharing system in v1.27. > > I've removed all the explicit connect/cursor calls, and now they're > implemented by a connect on __init() and subsequently by a single > function; prodServerConnection() which does a ping() against the > server(which the MySQL docs say should do an automatic reconnect if > possible), checks for errors, if the ping() fails, tries a full > disconnect and reconnect, trapping any errors that occur. > > If that fails, it drops out. > > This hasn't been thoroughly tested yet, but it should work I think. > > I still need a little help with the bounce_info and delivery_status > flags, though, as they don't seem to be working, in spite of what > Mailman is logging(*), the database isn't being updated. > > K. > > *) Lots of these, but the database isn't being updated properly... > > Nov 07 17:25:14 2003 (6195) XYZ(a)MYDOMAIN.co.uk: test current bounce > score: 1.0 > > -- > Kev Green, aka Kyrian. "Be excellent to each other" -- Bill & > Ted. > Email: kyrian@ore.org Web: http://kyrian.ore.org/ > ISP/Perl/PHP/Linux/Security Contractor, via http://www.orenet.co.uk/ > > _______________________________________________ > Mailman-Developers mailing list > Mailman-Developers(a)python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers -- Kev Green, aka Kyrian. "Be excellent to each other" -- Bill & Ted. Email: kyrian@ore.org Web: http://kyrian.ore.org/ ISP/Perl/PHP/Linux/Security Contractor, via http://www.orenet.co.uk/

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Re: [Mailman-Announce] A book on Mailman? Opinions, please.
by Josh Rabinowitz 07 Nov '03

07 Nov '03

>Dear Mailman Users: > >My name is Martin Streicher, and I am the Editor for Open Source >books at Apress (http://www.apress.com). I am considering publishing >a book on Mailman and would like to hear your opinions. > >Briefly, the book would be very focused on Mailman, would be about >150-200 pages, and would sell for less than $20. The book would be >very hands-on, something you would keep in your lap and work through >as you installed and configured Mailman with the MTA and web browser >of your choice. Then the book would switch to a problem-solution >section, useful for when you are troubleshooting or adding features >to your configuration, or trying to help users manage their Mailman >accounts. > >My questions: > >1/ Is such a book needed, and what is it's potential? Yes it's needed. Potential? I have no idea. >2/ If it is needed, what information should it include? What >problems come up time and again? Initial installation with various mail servers. And more importantly, (or equally importantly), ow to change mail servers and upgrade versions of mailman. >3/ Should it only be about Mailman, or should it include ezmlm, >Mailman, and Majordomo? Just mailman. Who cares about those anyway? Majordomo sux. >4/ Finally, what other topics in system administration might fit >this format -- short, project-oriented, solutions -- well? That is a good question. I think an SSH cookbook might work. >Thanks for your consideration and I look forward to your replies. >Please send replies to martin(a)apress.com. I will post a summary of >all replies so as to share the info, but not clutter the list in the >interim. > >Martin > > >_______________________________________________ >Mailman-announce mailing list >Mailman-announce(a)python.org >http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-announce >Member address: joshr-mailman(a)joshr.com >Unsubscribe: >http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-announce/joshr-mailman%40jos…

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RE: [Mailman-Announce] A book on Mailman? Opinions, please.
by Steve Ensley 07 Nov '03

07 Nov '03

We are dropping the use of Mailman ( not enough reporting and too slow). But if you write a book on list server software, you might evaluate different versions and explain how they differ in features and why a feature is important. It has taken us two years to learn all of that. A book would have beena nice aide. Thanks! Steve -----Original Message----- From: mailman-announce-bounces+sensley=afo.net(a)python.org [mailto:mailman-announce-bounces+sensley=afo.net@python.org]On Behalf Of Martin Streicher Sent: Friday, November 07, 2003 1:44 PM To: mailman-announce(a)python.org Subject: [Mailman-Announce] A book on Mailman? Opinions, please. Dear Mailman Users: My name is Martin Streicher, and I am the Editor for Open Source books at Apress (http://www.apress.com). I am considering publishing a book on Mailman and would like to hear your opinions. Briefly, the book would be very focused on Mailman, would be about 150-200 pages, and would sell for less than $20. The book would be very hands-on, something you would keep in your lap and work through as you installed and configured Mailman with the MTA and web browser of your choice. Then the book would switch to a problem-solution section, useful for when you are troubleshooting or adding features to your configuration, or trying to help users manage their Mailman accounts. My questions: 1/ Is such a book needed, and what is it's potential? 2/ If it is needed, what information should it include? What problems come up time and again? 3/ Should it only be about Mailman, or should it include ezmlm, Mailman, and Majordomo? 4/ Finally, what other topics in system administration might fit this format -- short, project-oriented, solutions -- well? Thanks for your consideration and I look forward to your replies. Please send replies to martin(a)apress.com. I will post a summary of all replies so as to share the info, but not clutter the list in the interim. Martin _______________________________________________ Mailman-announce mailing list Mailman-announce(a)python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-announce Member address: sensley(a)afo.net Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-announce/sensley%40afo.net --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.537 / Virus Database: 332 - Release Date: 11/6/2003 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.537 / Virus Database: 332 - Release Date: 11/6/2003

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RE: [Mailman-Developers] Mysql MemberAdaptor, v1.27
by Yuan, Cain 07 Nov '03

07 Nov '03

Hi Kev, It's very cool to do a ping() before using those connections. One more question here: where are you planning to add the code for close those connections when mailman is ready to quit (sometimes we need to shutdown mailman manually and of cause we did not want to leave those connection in the system)? Python has a __init() but seems no __exit functions( correct me if I am wrong). Regards, Cain -----Original Message----- From: mailman-developers-bounces+cain.yuan=intel.com(a)python.org [mailto:mailman-developers-bounces+cain.yuan=intel.com@python.org]On Behalf Of Kyrian (List) Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2003 1:40 AM To: mailman-developers(a)python.org Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Mysql MemberAdaptor, v1.27 > Hi Kev, > I had a look at the patch and have some questions here: why you > establish a connection to MySQL and then close it in each > function? AFAIK this will put much presure on MySQL if there > are some people to subscribe/unscribe from the list. Why not > just establish a ststic link to MySQL and then use it every time > you need to access the DB? > > Cain In response to this, and the atrocious performance that I just observed sending to a 60,000 or so member list, I've implemented a connection sharing system in v1.27. I've removed all the explicit connect/cursor calls, and now they're implemented by a connect on __init() and subsequently by a single function; prodServerConnection() which does a ping() against the server(which the MySQL docs say should do an automatic reconnect if possible), checks for errors, if the ping() fails, tries a full disconnect and reconnect, trapping any errors that occur. If that fails, it drops out. This hasn't been thoroughly tested yet, but it should work I think. I still need a little help with the bounce_info and delivery_status flags, though, as they don't seem to be working, in spite of what Mailman is logging(*), the database isn't being updated. K. *) Lots of these, but the database isn't being updated properly... Nov 07 17:25:14 2003 (6195) XYZ(a)MYDOMAIN.co.uk: test current bounce score: 1.0 -- Kev Green, aka Kyrian. "Be excellent to each other" -- Bill & Ted. Email: kyrian@ore.org Web: http://kyrian.ore.org/ ISP/Perl/PHP/Linux/Security Contractor, via http://www.orenet.co.uk/ _______________________________________________ Mailman-Developers mailing list Mailman-Developers(a)python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers

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Mysql MemberAdaptor, v1.27
by Kyrian 07 Nov '03

07 Nov '03

> Hi Kev, > I had a look at the patch and have some questions here: why you > establish a connection to MySQL and then close it in each > function? AFAIK this will put much presure on MySQL if there > are some people to subscribe/unscribe from the list. Why not > just establish a ststic link to MySQL and then use it every time > you need to access the DB? > > Cain In response to this, and the atrocious performance that I just observed sending to a 60,000 or so member list, I've implemented a connection sharing system in v1.27. I've removed all the explicit connect/cursor calls, and now they're implemented by a connect on __init() and subsequently by a single function; prodServerConnection() which does a ping() against the server(which the MySQL docs say should do an automatic reconnect if possible), checks for errors, if the ping() fails, tries a full disconnect and reconnect, trapping any errors that occur. If that fails, it drops out. This hasn't been thoroughly tested yet, but it should work I think. I still need a little help with the bounce_info and delivery_status flags, though, as they don't seem to be working, in spite of what Mailman is logging(*), the database isn't being updated. K. *) Lots of these, but the database isn't being updated properly... Nov 07 17:25:14 2003 (6195) XYZ(a)MYDOMAIN.co.uk: test current bounce score: 1.0 -- Kev Green, aka Kyrian. "Be excellent to each other" -- Bill & Ted. Email: kyrian@ore.org Web: http://kyrian.ore.org/ ISP/Perl/PHP/Linux/Security Contractor, via http://www.orenet.co.uk/

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Re: [Mailman-Developers] More on Mysql MemberAdaptor?
by Kyrian 07 Nov '03

07 Nov '03

On Wed, 5 Nov 2003 16:31:51 +0800 "Yuan, Cain" <cain.yuan(a)intel.com> wrote: > Hi Kev, > I had a look at the patch and have some questions here: why you > establish a connection to MySQL and then close it in each > function? AFAIK this will put much presure on MySQL if there > are some people to subscribe/unscribe from the list. Why not > just establish a ststic link to MySQL and then use it every time > you need to access the DB? > > Cain Gah! Just running a very big test of this thing, and it seems you're *very* right. By the looks of it, Mailman loads in all of the delivery_status and digest information before it even sends the first mail. Given that, the performance penalty of all those connect/cursor/etc. calls is horrendous, and I need to rethink a little. On the good side, though, I *think* I've got the get/setBounceInfo functions working now, but I've had to import the _BounceInfo class in order to create the appropriate object instance to make it work. Don't know if that's going to be a problem... Current Versionisms: MysqlMemberships.py: 1.24 MysqlMemberships.py.README: 1.15 MysqlMemberships.py.TODO: 1.6 Pondering whether to send a message to mailman-users about this thing, or not. I don't like the prospect of my server getting slashdotted though :( K. -- Kev Green, aka Kyrian. E: kyrian@ore.org WWW: http://kyrian.ore.org/ ISP/Perl/PHP/Linux/Security Contractor, via http://www.orenet.co.uk/ "Love is that condition in which the happiness of another person is essential to your own." R. Heinlein, Stranger in a Strange Land, 1961. -- Kev Green, aka Kyrian. "Be excellent to each other" -- Bill & Ted. Email: kyrian@ore.org Web: http://kyrian.ore.org/ ISP/Perl/PHP/Linux/Security Contractor, via http://www.orenet.co.uk/

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Requirements for a new archiver
by Iain Bapty 06 Nov '03

06 Nov '03

Hi, For those of you that don't know I am currently working on a archive component for Mailman as part of my degree. The interface to the archive shall be based on the ideas in Ka-Ping Yee's paper on his Zest prototype. Over the past two weeks I have been looking at requirements and have the following. These are in no specific order. Due to the time constraints on my project (I am to only spend 200 hours in total on it, including writing reports, presentations etc) there is a limit to the amount I can do. Functional Requirements The archive component should 1. store email discussions. 2. integrate with Mailman. 3. provide a web-based interface to those email-discussions. 4. provide an interface that threads discussions by their content. (ZEST) 5. provide an interface that threads discussions by e-mail replies. 6. allow for full-text searching of the archives. 7. allow for filtering by date, author, and/or topic. 8. be MIME aware. 9. allow archives to be set as public or private. 10. allow posts to be added, deleted, and modified through web interface. 11. allow archives to be locked to prevent modification. 12. allow postings to be emailed. 13. allow postings to be referenced externally. Non-Functional Requirements 1. Maintainable 2. Secure 3. Scalable The minimum I am planning on doing is the first 5 functional requirements restricted by the first 2 non-functional requirements. There are a two reasons I am posting this. Is there anything obvious that I have missed? Which of the functional requirements, 6 to 13, do you feel are the most important? (As part of my report I have to analyse the requirements captured) Any feedback is very much appreciated. Thanks in advance. Iain

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