Mailman 3 May 2012 - Mailman-Developers

Re: [Mailman-Developers] need tutorial for setting up python development environment on Ubuntu please
by David May 4, 2012

May 4, 2012

On Fri, May 4, 2012 at 2:10 PM, David <dave(a)fiteyes.com> wrote: > > I also came across this useful tutorial: > Python Ecosystem - An Introduction > http://mirnazim.org/writings/python-ecosystem-introduction/ > Now I found this too: http://wiki.list.org/display/DEV/mailman3+in+virtualenv - Added by Toshio Kuratomi<http://wiki.list.org/display/%7Etoshio@fedoraproject.org>, last edited by Toshio Kuratomi<http://wiki.list.org/display/%7Etoshio@fedoraproject.org>on Mar 12, 2012 <http://wiki.list.org/display/DEV/mailman3+in+virtualenv#page-metadata-start> * Download all sources by bzr branching:: - lp:mailman - lp:mailmanweb - lp:mailman.client - lp:django_dev_setup - http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~flo-fuchs/mailmanweb/django_dev_setup/ * Create virtualenv and install django $ virtualenv mm3 $ cd mm3 $ source bin/activate $ easy_install django * Import mailman3 sources $ cp ~/path/to/source/downloaded . * Build mailman3: $ cd mailman $ python bootstrap.py $ bin/buildout $ bin/test ## Some seems to be failing * Start Mailman: $ bin/mailman start $ cd .. # Ran into this error when running with sqlite: https://bugs.launchpad.net/mailman/+bug/246867 Changed to postgres according to docs in DATABASE.rst * Install mailman client $ cd mailman.client $ python setup.py develop $ cd .. * Install the mailman web $ cd mailmanweb $ python setup.py develop $ cd .. * Start the project $ cd django_dev_setup $ python manage.py syncdb $ python manage.py runserver

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Re: [Mailman-Developers] need tutorial for setting up python development environment on Ubuntu please
by Barry Warsaw May 4, 2012

May 4, 2012

On May 03, 2012, at 09:20 PM, David wrote: >After a full day of stuff like this: >error: Installed distribution zope.interface 3.6.1 conflicts with >requirement zope.interface>=3.8.0 >... I need a good tutorial on setting up the development environment, >including whatever related tools are needed, to build and install Mailman >3.0. Google hasn't turned up anything very helpful yet. I appreciate any >recommendations. For me, it depends on whether you want to develop mm3 or install it. If you're going to develop it (i.e. fix bugs, work on features, etc), then it's best to use the buildout infrastructure. This is mainly because the test suite is more or less tied to buildout at the moment. So the steps to build a development environment would be: $ python bootstrap.py $ bin/buildout You'll need an internet connection so buildout can download all the stuff you need from the Cheeseshop. Once you've done that, look in bin/ for other commands you can run, such as * `bin/test` to run the test suite, or parts of it * `bin/py` to give you a Python interpreter with the 'mailman' namespace accessible, but not loaded, and the system not initialized * `bin/mailman shell` to give you an interpreter prompt with the basic system initialized (i.e. database, Zope component architecture, loggers, etc.) If instead you want to run Mailman 3, I recommend using virtualenv and skipping buildout. E.g. $ virtualenv /some/path $ source /some/path/bin/activate $ python setup.py install Now you can run `mailman info` to get some basic information about how your system is configured, `mailman start` to start the system, etc. I do recommend creating an etc/mailman.cfg to customize various aspects of Mailman before you start. Take a look at src/mailman/config/schema.cfg and .../mailman.cfg for the default settings. >BTW, is Python 3 recommended for Mailman 3? I'm using 2.7 atm. Mailman 3 is not compatible with Python 3 right now. As soon as our dependency stack is available for Python 3, I plan on porting Mailman 3 to it. That is very unlikely to happen until after 3.0 is released. For now, you can use Python 2.6 or 2.7. Cheers, -Barry

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Re: [Mailman-Developers] problem installing Mailman 3.0 beta1 - no var directory created during install
by Barry Warsaw May 4, 2012

May 4, 2012

On May 03, 2012, at 02:49 PM, David wrote: >I installed it but I didn't get a var directory at all. (On the chance that >it is created only after starting Mailman the first time, I tried to start >it but that didn't work either.) The last line of the installation output Correct. The var directory (and database, etc.) don't get created until the first time Mailman "starts", but my recommendation is to run $ bin/mailman info to get that initial file system layout, including the var dir. You might want to create your mailman.cfg file first though. After you've run the info command and seen where it's putting things, adjust your mailman.cfg file accordingly. When you're happy with it, then you can run 'start' to get the runners going. Cheers, -Barry

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Re: [Mailman-Developers] [GSoC 2012] Metrics
by Stephen J. Turnbull May 4, 2012

May 4, 2012

George Chatzisofroniou writes: > > It's not clear to me why year views can't be generated as an aggregate > > of monthly data? This would allow years to start with arbitrary > > months without too much redundancy. > > Generating the year views from monthly data is some more calculations > while displaying the metrics. That's why they should be stored > somewhere. OK, but these are pretty cheap calculations if I understand Django's design correctly. Which design do you think is simpler, in the context of your overall plan?

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Re: [Mailman-Developers] [GSoC 2012] Metrics
by Richard Wackerbarth May 4, 2012

May 4, 2012

Steve, I will take the blame for any misunderstanding in this area. The GSoC calendar is based on the assumption that the students will have completed their spring academic work prior to the serious coding phase. Since conditions in Greece have delayed George's academic year, his "spring" final exams will now occur during the summer. I suggested that, in order to meet his mid-term goals in a timely fashion, he might expend some extra hours now, hopefully be ready to start coding a little early, and then be able to take a planned period of reduced effort during his finals. I am not, in any manner, suggesting that he skip any steps in the process. Richard > On Thu, May 3, 2012 at 8:04 AM, George Chatzisofroniou > <sophron(a)latthi.com> wrote: > >> I’m also thinking to rearrange the GSoC schedule a bit. I’ll start >> writing code on the bonding period, > > It's up to your coding mentors, but it's generally not a good idea to > try to move up the coding stage by too much. Make sure you have a > clear spec before you start coding anything, and at least a rough > sketch of a design. Without those two pieces, there's no standard to > evaluate progress, or whether your code is doing the right thing. > >> so i can have more time during my >> university’s exams (starting on half of June). > > I'd say just take the time as needed, after negotiating with your mentors.

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Re: [Mailman-Developers] [GSoC 2012] Metrics
by George Chatzisofroniou May 4, 2012

May 4, 2012

Hello Stephen, > On Thu, May 3, 2012 at 8:04 AM, George Chatzisofroniou > <sophron(a)latthi.com> wrote: > >> I’m also thinking to rearrange the GSoC schedule a bit. I’ll start >> writing code on the bonding period, > > It's up to your coding mentors, but it's generally not a good idea to > try to move up the coding stage by too much. Make sure you have a > clear spec before you start coding anything, and at least a rough > sketch of a design. Without those two pieces, there's no standard to > evaluate progress, or whether your code is doing the right thing. > As wacky mentioned i'm not planning to skip any step of the process. The idea is to press myself a bit more now, so i can have some more time to study later. I should have explained myself better. >> so i can have more time during my >> university’s exams (starting on half of June). > > I'd say just take the time as needed, after negotiating with your mentors. > >> Settings >> >> The Django app should handle some configuration parameters, like: >> >> - Maximum number of the subscribers of a mailing list the user wants >> to be shown in the charts > > I don't know how feasible it would be to implement, but if you're > willing to use AJAX, you could simply build up bar and line charts on > the fly, adding "slices" of say 5 users at a time on the right side of > the chart in progress. That might be cool. It could be set in a > "viewport" and scrolled if it gets too big for the viewport. Yes, AJAX can do the job here. I will implement the AJAX bar as you described, although i think it's better to primarily have a non-Javascript output. > > >> - Month – This model will store total posts and threads for each month >> - Year – Similar to month model, this one will store total posts and >> threads for each year > > It's not clear to me why year views can't be generated as an aggregate > of monthly data? This would allow years to start with arbitrary > months without too much redundancy. Generating the year views from monthly data is some more calculations while displaying the metrics. That's why they should be stored somewhere. > >> Interface to the MM core >> >> The app needs to interact with the Mailman core. I think the best idea >> is to implement a message bus that will send a notification every time >> a message is sent (the same way an archiver works). > > Why not just use the iArchiver interface? > > I think it should be possible to have this be a standalone app serving > the list itself, or be hosted by a particular archive, which wouldn't > need to be the list host (or even run by the same organization). Yes, i agree. The iArchiver should be the origin of the interface. Thank you for your feedback, -- George Chatzisofroniou sophron.latthi.com

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Re: [Mailman-Developers] need tutorial for setting up pythondevelopment environment on Ubuntu please
by Mark Sapiro May 4, 2012

May 4, 2012

David <dave(a)fiteyes.com> wrote: > >BTW, is Python 3 recommended for Mailman 3? No. Mailman 3 does not yet work with Python 3. It requires Python 2.6 or Python 2.7 >I see a bunch of stuff on >virtualenv, but if it is simpler to not user virtualenv and to just have >one version of Python installed, I'll go that direction. It's really up to you. virtualenv will allow you to isolate your Mailman 3 environment from the rest of your system so that, for example, the Django you install as part of Postorius won't conflict with other Django installs, etc ... -- Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan

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Re: [Mailman-Developers] problem installing Mailman 3.0 beta1 - no vardirectory created during install
by David May 4, 2012

May 4, 2012

On Fri, May 4, 2012 at 12:32 AM, David <dave(a)fiteyes.com> wrote: > > > On Fri, May 4, 2012 at 12:22 AM, Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> wrote: > >> David <dave(a)fiteyes.com>wrote: >> > >> >Here's what I did: >> > >> >export PYTHONPATH=$PYTHONPATH:/opt/mailman3/lib/python2.7/site-packages/ >> >/usr/bin/python setup.py install --prefix=/opt/mailman3 >> >> >> That's not the correct incantation. >> >> See src/mailman/docs/START.rst in the distribution tree or see >> <http://wiki.list.org/x/PwDL> >> >> I deleted everything and started fresh. After 30 hours of nothing but errors, the statement from the link above finally held true: "you should be done within ~5 minutes" :) Next up: "At this point Mailman will not send nor receive any real emails. But that's fine as long as you only want to work on the components related to the ReST client or the web ui." I actually want to send and receive emails. ;)

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Re: [Mailman-Developers] problem installing Mailman 3.0 beta1 - no vardirectory created during install
by Mark Sapiro May 4, 2012

May 4, 2012

David <dave(a)fiteyes.com>wrote: > >Here's what I did: > >export PYTHONPATH=$PYTHONPATH:/opt/mailman3/lib/python2.7/site-packages/ >/usr/bin/python setup.py install --prefix=/opt/mailman3 That's not the correct incantation. See src/mailman/docs/START.rst in the distribution tree or see <http://wiki.list.org/x/PwDL> -- Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan

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need tutorial for setting up python development environment on Ubuntu please
by David May 4, 2012

May 4, 2012

After a full day of stuff like this: error: Installed distribution zope.interface 3.6.1 conflicts with requirement zope.interface>=3.8.0 ... I need a good tutorial on setting up the development environment, including whatever related tools are needed, to build and install Mailman 3.0. Google hasn't turned up anything very helpful yet. I appreciate any recommendations. I keep running across recommendations like this: It could be a Setuptools bug, or an incomplete installation of > Setuptools/Distribute. Hence, I feel the need to start with a clean slate and a really good tutorial on setting up the development environment in Ubuntu 12.04. BTW, is Python 3 recommended for Mailman 3? I'm using 2.7 atm. I plan to use just one version of Python to keep it simple. I see a bunch of stuff on virtualenv, but if it is simpler to not user virtualenv and to just have one version of Python installed, I'll go that direction. Also, in case it is of interest, a lot (but not all) of my problems seem to center around PYTHONPATH. I probably don't have it right yet. And the following step is where I'm stuck: setup.py install --prefix=$YOUR_PREFERENCE". Previously I ran `bin/buildout` and `bin/test -vv` with this result: Total: 383 tests, 0 failures, 0 errors in 40.273 seconds.

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