Mailman-Developers September 2012

mailman-developers@python.org

19 participants
30 discussions

before next release: disable backscatter in default installation
by Jo Rhett 07 Nov '22

07 Nov '22

Hi. There's a fairly simple problem here that needs to be addressed. And it's mostly a documentation/install problem. I'm hoping we can get this resolved before the next release. PROBLEM: Mailman comes out of the box ready to backscatter spam people. Yes, it's easy enough to fix. But because it comes stock this way, and is documented to install this way, most people install it to do this. Those of us who work in abuse departments are tired of hearing "well that's how Mailman works". We also object to having to teach people how to fix their mailman installations because it's not documented in the current manual. This is *exactly* like Sendmail 14 years ago. We didn't accept it then, and Sendmail fixed the problem. RESOLUTION: Mailman default installation should not backscatter in a default configuration. 1. Don't create backscatter aliases for subscribe/unsubscribe/etc by default. Nearly everyone uses web based signup. 2. Discard or hold messages from non-subscribers by default. I would think that it would be perfectly reasonable to have documentation on how to enable the 1980s-style -request / -subscribe etc aliases. However this documentation should have a note that this is against the AUP of nearly every network provider, and enabling it will likely cause them to get listed in various blacklists as a backscatter source. FYI: I know that this goes against the instincts of many old-time mailing list advocates here. But after dealing with a 10k/hour backscatter DoS my tolerance for this problem is understandably limited. Yes, it was a sweet day back in the 1980s. I was running a mailing list server and several UUCP gateways at the time, so I remember them well. But those days are past, and we need to deal with the reality of today. -- Jo Rhett Net Consonance : consonant endings by net philanthropy, open source and other randomness

21 168

Postorius: Missing Features (Draft)
by Florian Fuchs 29 Sep '12

29 Sep '12

Hi all, in order to give everyone interested (and everyone joining this Saturdays's mini-hackathon) something to code, here's a list of existing Postorius features, followed by a list of *some* missing features. Of course, the second list is up for discussion - ideally it should transform into a concrete "what Postorius must be able to do"-list before Friday, so we can file bugs on launchpad and assign them. 1) Existing Features: * Add/Remove lists * List overview (shows all public mailing lists). * List info/subscribe/unsubscribe * Mass subscription (admin only) * List members overview (admin only) * Held messages/moderation (admin only) * Edit list settings (list identity, autoresponse, digest. moderation - admin only) * Add domains (admin only) * Authentication through BrowserID or a Postorius admin account (created during installation). 2) What's missing: * Adding/editing users * Editing user data * Assigning roles to existing memberships (member/owner/moderator). * Access control based on membership roles/superuser status. * Membership moderation * Better/more help/success/error messages * Better test coverage * OpenID Log-In * Registration without BrowserID, OpenID? * Anonymous subscriptions? * Translation? There are, of course, many more possible features, but I'd consider these the essentials. I'm also sure I've missed something important... ;-) Cheers Florian

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Re: [Mailman-Developers] Unforeseen difficulties with the Mailman logo
by Terri Oda 28 Sep '12

28 Sep '12

Thanks Andrija! Going with a solid colour helped a lot. I had to do a bit of tweaking of the lines to make the button visible from a reasonable distance (and to offset the low resolution of the printer I have on hand), but I now have colourful GNU Mailman buttons to give out at GHC12 next week. :) http://www.flickr.com/photos/terrio/8031876226/ I do promise to print and mail out a few for my GSoC mentors if I can find your addresses (And Andrija if you send me your address!), but the rest of you may have to wait 'till pycon if you want one of mine. But you can print your own! Here's the template I used: http://terri.zone12.com/mailman-logo-buttonsheet-dark.svg I'm pretty sure that falls under my existing copyright agreement with Mailman or standard GPL since it's modified from the logo, so you should consider it GPL'ed and free for use as you see fit. It's a standard 1.5" button if you happen to know someone else with a button machine or want to do a run at a print shop. Terri On 12-09-26 8:21 AM, Andrija Arsic wrote: > Hi there, > > at this side, I can't be 100% sure what can be the problem, but I will bet > on gradient colors. I am attaching one .svg file with solid color (darker > blue from original colors) so you can give it a try. > The other option is that the printer can't give the best look. Maybe you > can try on any other. > > Let me know if this helps. > > On Wed, Sep 26, 2012 at 4:07 PM, Barry Warsaw <barry(a)list.org> wrote: > >> I am very definitely graphics challenged, but I'm CC'ing Andrija, the >> artist >> who generated the original logo. Maybe he has some ideas about adjusting >> the >> images for these buttons (which is a great idea, btw!). >> >> Cheers, >> -Barry >> >> On Sep 26, 2012, at 02:25 AM, Terri Oda wrote: >> >>> So, I'm having a bit of trouble with the Mailman logo: >>> >>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/terrio/8025917889/in/photostream >>> >>> The problem being that the delicate lines pretty much just don't show up >> when I try to print it in button size. >>> I don't suppose anyone here has some hidden graphics-fu and could help me >> out? the buttons have a 1.375in printable area, and I'm using a colour >> laser. Maybe if I switched to a single colour instead of the gradients it >> would help make them work better? >>> The original logo page is here: >>> http://list.org/images/logo2010.svg >>> >>> I made a stab at thickening up those lines here (this is the sheet I used >> to make the actual button in the photo): >>> http://terri.zone12.com/mailman-logo-buttonsheet.svg >>> >>> I'd like to make a few of these for the GHC hackathon (Sat Oct 6th >> 8:30-4:30 North American Eastern Time, and we'll be on IRC if any of you >> would like to join us!), but I'm currently despairing of managing to >> produce some that are legible and attractive. >> > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Mailman-Developers mailing list > Mailman-Developers(a)python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers > Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 > Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-developers%40python.org/ > Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-developers/terri%40zone12.com > > Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9

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Unforeseen difficulties with the Mailman logo
by Terri Oda 26 Sep '12

26 Sep '12

So, I'm having a bit of trouble with the Mailman logo: http://www.flickr.com/photos/terrio/8025917889/in/photostream The problem being that the delicate lines pretty much just don't show up when I try to print it in button size. I don't suppose anyone here has some hidden graphics-fu and could help me out? the buttons have a 1.375in printable area, and I'm using a colour laser. Maybe if I switched to a single colour instead of the gradients it would help make them work better? The original logo page is here: http://list.org/images/logo2010.svg I made a stab at thickening up those lines here (this is the sheet I used to make the actual button in the photo): http://terri.zone12.com/mailman-logo-buttonsheet.svg I'd like to make a few of these for the GHC hackathon (Sat Oct 6th 8:30-4:30 North American Eastern Time, and we'll be on IRC if any of you would like to join us!), but I'm currently despairing of managing to produce some that are legible and attractive. Terri

4 3

mailman.client
by Florian Fuchs 21 Sep '12

21 Sep '12

Hi there, I've just pushed some small changes to mailman.client. So for everyone taking part in tomorrow's Postorius hackathon: Make sure you have the most recent revision of mailman.client installed. Otherwise Postorius is not going to work fully with the recent version of the MM3 core. Looking forward to seeing you tomorrow on #mailman! Cheers Florian P.S.: @Barry: Is there a way to get the "list_id" property from a list resource in the API? The JSON returned by /3.0/lists/<fqdn_listname> doesn't seem to contain such a field. So in order to make mailman.client work with 3.0b2, I simply used fqdn_listname and replaced the "@" with a dot. Dirty, I know... But only a preliminary hack until I know how to get the list_id from the API. ;-)

2 1

Re: [Mailman-Developers] Mailman Vs Sharepoint
by Murls 21 Sep '12

21 Sep '12

Hi Andrew, We have online forum running using Mailman Software for posting member / their queries and member registration management on Drupal based website with MYSQL as database. Emails are moderated by Moderators. In mailman we have an option of editing header of the email before posting it finally on the forum. Can Microsoft SharePoint give user option to edit email header and option to post the final email to the forum by the Moderators. Can Microsoft SharePoint do the following: 1) Member Management? 2) Editing Header of the email before its sent to the forum 3) Moderate emails (Deny, Approve or Discard) 4) Send Sign Up / Welcoming emails Cheers, Murls On Tue, Sep 18, 2012 at 10:16 PM, Andrew Hodgson <andrew(a)hodgsonfamily.org>wrote: > Murls wrote: > > >Dear Developers, > > >Need help on justifying Mailman is not outdated technology and how its > better than Microsoft Sharepoint. > > For what purpose exactly? I could be quite controversial here and say > that in some usage scenarios SharePoint is a better fit than Mailman, but > it depends on what your goals are now, what you want to do, and the people > you have to work with. > > Andrew. >

1 0

Getting to Mailman 3.0 final
by Barry Warsaw 19 Sep '12

19 Sep '12

Hi Mailman developers, I really want to get Mailman 3.0 final out in the next month or so, absolutely definitely by the end of 2012. Clearly, the core won't have everything that everyone wants but I think it will have quite a bit, and be a useful release for people to start using in production. In some ways, I view Mailman 3.0 in the same light as Python 3.0. It was critical for that version to be released because the reality is that most people won't test even a beta release. However, once Python 3.1 was released, we stopped recommending and maintaining Python 3.0 and just encouraged everyone to upgrade. My biggest priority is to ensure that Mailman 3.0 is usable even without a web ui, and that major projects such as Postorius and HyperKitty can continue making good progress toward their own releases with 3.0. To make it easier for me to understand your priorities and needs, I request that anything you think is missing in Mailman 3 today be added as a bug in our tracker: <http://bugs.launchpad.net/mailman>. You must add the 'mailman3' tag to the bug and bump the importance up to Critical. In a week or so, I'll start triaging the bugs and make my own assessments, and then anything marked critical will be fixed before the final release. There will be no High bugs, and everything else will be marked Low and postponed to Mailman 3.1. In the bug comments, please add justifications or other information you think will be useful to me while doing a final triage. Of course, priority always goes to those bugs that have branches and merge proposals attached to them (i.e. contributions welcome!). Cheers, -Barry

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Re: [Mailman-Developers] Mailman Vs Sharepoint
by Andrew Hodgson 18 Sep '12

18 Sep '12

Murls wrote: >Dear Developers, >Need help on justifying Mailman is not outdated technology and how its better than Microsoft Sharepoint. For what purpose exactly? I could be quite controversial here and say that in some usage scenarios SharePoint is a better fit than Mailman, but it depends on what your goals are now, what you want to do, and the people you have to work with. Andrew.

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Re: [Mailman-Developers] Mailman Vs Sharepoint
by Barry Warsaw 18 Sep '12

18 Sep '12

On Sep 18, 2012, at 10:28 AM, Murls wrote: >Need help on justifying Mailman is not outdated technology and how its >better than Microsoft Sharepoint. First, GNU Mailman is free software, so you have the freedom to use it for any purpose, to make whatever changes you want to suite your specific needs, and to redistribute those changes to others, as long as you confer the same rights along with your changes. Second, these are two different tools with very different goals. Wikipedia tells me that SharePoint is a large web application suite of tools, perhaps one of those tools is a mailing list manager (I don't know). GNU Mailman is solely focused on the task of managing mailing lists. Especially with Mailman 3, it is designed to be easily integrated with other tools, but in the best Unix tradition, it doesn't try to take over those tasks. Cheers, -Barry

1 0

Mailman Vs Sharepoint
by Murls 17 Sep '12

17 Sep '12

Dear Developers, Need help on justifying Mailman is not outdated technology and how its better than Microsoft Sharepoint. Responses will be appreciated. Cheers,

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Mailman-Developers September 2012