Mailman 3 November 2013 - Mailman-Developers

before next release: disable backscatter in default installation
by Jo Rhett Nov. 7, 2022

Nov. 7, 2022

Hi. There's a fairly simple problem here that needs to be addressed. And it's mostly a documentation/install problem. I'm hoping we can get this resolved before the next release. PROBLEM: Mailman comes out of the box ready to backscatter spam people. Yes, it's easy enough to fix. But because it comes stock this way, and is documented to install this way, most people install it to do this. Those of us who work in abuse departments are tired of hearing "well that's how Mailman works". We also object to having to teach people how to fix their mailman installations because it's not documented in the current manual. This is *exactly* like Sendmail 14 years ago. We didn't accept it then, and Sendmail fixed the problem. RESOLUTION: Mailman default installation should not backscatter in a default configuration. 1. Don't create backscatter aliases for subscribe/unsubscribe/etc by default. Nearly everyone uses web based signup. 2. Discard or hold messages from non-subscribers by default. I would think that it would be perfectly reasonable to have documentation on how to enable the 1980s-style -request / -subscribe etc aliases. However this documentation should have a note that this is against the AUP of nearly every network provider, and enabling it will likely cause them to get listed in various blacklists as a backscatter source. FYI: I know that this goes against the instincts of many old-time mailing list advocates here. But after dealing with a 10k/hour backscatter DoS my tolerance for this problem is understandably limited. Yes, it was a sweet day back in the 1980s. I was running a mailing list server and several UUCP gateways at the time, so I remember them well. But those days are past, and we need to deal with the reality of today. -- Jo Rhett Net Consonance : consonant endings by net philanthropy, open source and other randomness

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Re: [Mailman-Developers] Mailman 3 vs Groupserver vs Sympa
by Ian Eiloart March 14, 2014

March 14, 2014

Hi Kẏra, Some additional answers, inline below. Most of your questions relate to the web archiver, and Nico has answered some of those. In order to get all the questions and answers in the same place (so people can see which questions aren’t yet answered here), I’ve rolled Nico’s comments into this reply. On 7 Oct 2013, at 03:38, Kẏra <kxra(a)riseup.net> wrote: > Hello, > > My name is Kẏra and I am the technology director of the Free Culture > Foundation as well as a campaigns organizer for the Free Software > Foundation and we're in need up upgrading our mailing lists to a more > web-friendly system. I'm doing research on newer list severs to see how > they compare. So far Groupserver seems to provide everything, but if > Mailman 3 is going to be released soon, we'd like to consider that as well. > > I'm making a comparison chart and wanted to ask about Mailman 3 (and > Postorius) features. Answers to any and all of the following with regards > to Mailman 3 + Postorius would be super helpful: > > Can you post from the web interface? yes > Is there file upload support? yes > Is there now a search feature? Can it search multiple lists? yes, yes > Are there web feeds (atom or rss)? Generated from lists? searches? threads? > files? Nico’s plugin API seems to be offering support for this. > Are posts and administration integrated into the web interface? I think that site and list administration are not part of the hyperkitty > Can you specify a posting rate restriction? I don’t know. > Is full css customization for the web interface supported? > Is css customization for the email interface supported? Hyperkitty supports "themes". I’m guessing you’ll be able to roll your own. > Is there site-side logging? (as opposed to server side) Logging (apart from web accesses) would be a Mailman responsibility. I’m not sure what you mean by "site-side", but perhaps you’re after remote reporting on a domain of yours hosted a third party at a remote site. Again, that’s possible. It could be provided through a web interface, or some other means. > Is there a link to the post in the web interface in the footer of messages? That’ll require co-operation between Mailman and the web archive. But, if the web archive URL is predictable, then I think Mailman will be able to do this. > Now that users are more than just email addresses, can you request to > contact a list member? Do you mean from their profile page, or from a list of members? > Can users have multiple email addresses? Yes, that’s a part of users being more than just email addresses. > Are there profile pages where you can see a summary of their latest posts? yes > Can the web interface hide quoted text? yes > Are usage statistics provided? The Hyperkitty change log for 0.1 alpha says "show basic list info and metrics". Certainly the Mailman 2 logs provide enough information from which useful usage stats could be derived. If Hyperkitty doesn’t provide the stats that you want, you’ll likely be able to get them from the log files. > Thanks! > > Also, did Mailman 2 already support LMTP and virtual domains or are those > new? They’re new. Mailman 2 did have partial support of virtual domains, but there was a restriction whereby no two domains could have a list with the same name: so I can’t imagine that this would be useful. > > Best, > Kẏra > > -- > Board of Directors, Free Culture Foundation: www.freeculture.org > Campaigns Organizer, Free Software Foundation: www.fsf.org > > Blog: http://kxra.info - StatusNet Microblog: http://identi.ca/kxra > Email: kxra(a)freeculture.org - SMS: +1.617.340.3661 > Jabber/XMPP: kxra(a)riseup.net - IRC: kxra @freenode @oftc @indymedia > _______________________________________________ > Mailman-Developers mailing list > Mailman-Developers(a)python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers > Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 > Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-developers%40python.org/ > Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-developers/iane%40sussex.ac… > > Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 -- Ian Eiloart Postmaster, University of Sussex +44 (0) 1273 87-3148

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Re: [Mailman-Developers] Migration script from MM2 to MM3
by Barry Warsaw Jan. 15, 2014

Jan. 15, 2014

On Sep 20, 2013, at 12:46 PM, Aurelien Bompard wrote: >What do you think? Bad timing? Any existing work I'm missing? I think it's a *great* idea. No, perfect timing. Not that I know of! :) What we've said in the past is that we weren't going to promise conversion scripts from 2.1 to 3.0, partly because that work was incomplete, but also because we wanted to caution users not to just blindly upgrade as soon as 3.0 is released. But I think having a reliable, well-tested, non-destructive option to upgrade would be wonderful, especially because I fully hope that a site could run 2.1 and 3.0 together for a while. Any help you need, let me know. (I've been ridiculously swamped at work these past few weeks. Apologies for being rather quiet lately. I hope that'll improve in the next couple of weeks.) Cheers, -Barry

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Mailman 2.1.16 release.
by Mark Sapiro Nov. 23, 2013

Nov. 23, 2013

FYI, I will be releasing 2.1.16rc1 in a few days with a target of a final release in early September. I believe the release will be very solid and stable. The main purpose of the candidate release is to expose any i18n changes so that translators can submit any updates and get them in the final release. There are a few new features, contributed programs, i18n changes and bug fixes, all of which will be announced when the candidate is released. -- Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan

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Mailman Suite Beta task list take 2
by Terri Oda Nov. 20, 2013

Nov. 20, 2013

Trying to keep track of what's still on the table: 1. Multiple email address association with a single account. We're going to implement the verification emails from postorius for now, I guess. Florian, you seemed to know how to do this; do you mind getting it done? 2. Authentication issues for Postorius/Hyperkitty Have these been resolved? Florian, do you need code reviews yet? 3. Install scripts/PyPI packaging Anyone want to take this? Even just a start on it would be very helpful. Aurelian, you may be the person who's had the most success with this thus far -- would you be interested in doing it or helping out someone else who takes on the task? 4. Owner/moderator removal in Postorius Unless someone is desperate to handle this one, I may do it this week, either tonight or Thursday. 5. Anything else? Terri

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Mailman 2.1.17
by Mark Sapiro Nov. 18, 2013

Nov. 18, 2013

Since the release of Mailman 2.1.16 last month, there have been some i18n updates, a new feature affecting which headers are kept in posts to anonymous lists and a few bug fixes. One of these bugs was introduced in 2.1.16 and is fairly serious although it only affects lists with defined topics. See <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1251495>. For this reason, I plan to release Mailman 2.1.17 in about a week. If there are any i18n changes or other things that should go in 2.1.17, please get them to me before next weekend. -- Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan

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Re: [Mailman-Developers] REST API call for creating archive view?
by Aurélien Bompard Nov. 15, 2013

Nov. 15, 2013

> Thanks Aurélien! Is there some documentation (or code) somewhere I can > look at for that? Unfortunately there is no separate documentation for the REST API, but if you install HyperKitty and browse the /api URL, there is an HTML rendering that explains endpoints and their use. Aurélien -- http://aurelien.bompard.org ~~~~~~ xmpp:aurelien@bompard.org "Experience is that marvelous thing that enables you to recognize a mistake when you make it again." -- Franklin P. Jones

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Mailman Suite beta: what's left?
by Terri Oda Nov. 15, 2013

Nov. 15, 2013

Stephen, Florian and I had a nice discussion at the GSoC Mentor Summit about what's left before we can release a beta of the entire Mailman Suite (i.e. Mailman core, Postorius and Hyperkitty packaged together). We're getting close! In fact, close enough that I'm going to suggest that we set a beta release target date of Dec 1st. I know we had a list of 5 things... but for some reason I can't remember all of them. Florian, Stephen, can you chime in? 1. Need a Postorius interface for associating multiple email addresses with a single account. This is probably going to require either an email verification, so we might want to have that as part Mailman Core rather than doing it directly in Postorius. Short term, I don't care how it's done as long as it verifies that the user actually has access to the addresses they link together. 2. Postorius & Hyperkitty need a bit more work on the authentication management. Florian indicated that he's looking for some code review for the persona integration and that we'd really like a single sign on solution for postorius/hyperkitty to work together seamlessly. 3. We need some nice install scripts or packaging work so that installing Mailman Suite is easy. Probably for beta purposes this can just be a shell script, but we also talked about doing a meta "Mailman Suite" PyPI package and maybe doing a .deb or .rpm as proof of concept. 4. ?? 5. ?? Hopefully Florian and Stephen have better memories than I and can fill those in. Everyone else: anything you know that needs to happen before we can get a Mailman Suite beta out? Terri

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Re: [Mailman-Developers] small patch
by Mark Sapiro Nov. 15, 2013

Nov. 15, 2013

On 11/14/2013 02:22 AM, Fil wrote: > Hello, > > I just upgraded to Mailman 2.1.16 and python 2.7 (I was still on MM 2.1.11 > with python 2.3) > > => with a topics-enabled list, I had a few shunted files with this message : > > Nov 14 11:04:29 2013 (21875) Uncaught runner exception: change_header() got > an unexpected keyword argument 'Delete' > > File "/var/local/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/Tagger.py", line 74, in process > > mlist, msg, msgdata, Delete=False) Thanks for the report. The fix is committed for the next release. See <https://bugs.launchpad.net/mailman/+bug/1251495>. -- Mark Sapiro <mark(a)msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan

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small patch
by Fil Nov. 14, 2013

Nov. 14, 2013

Hello, I just upgraded to Mailman 2.1.16 and python 2.7 (I was still on MM 2.1.11 with python 2.3) => with a topics-enabled list, I had a few shunted files with this message : Nov 14 11:04:29 2013 (21875) Uncaught runner exception: change_header() got an unexpected keyword argument 'Delete' File "/var/local/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/Tagger.py", line 74, in process mlist, msg, msgdata, Delete=False) so I modified this: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mailman-coders/mailman/2.1/view/head:/Mailman/… on line 74, use delete=False, instead of Delete=False -- Fil

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