Mailman 3 May 2019 - Mailman-Developers

before next release: disable backscatter in default installation
by Jo Rhett Nov. 7, 2022

Nov. 7, 2022

Hi. There's a fairly simple problem here that needs to be addressed. And it's mostly a documentation/install problem. I'm hoping we can get this resolved before the next release. PROBLEM: Mailman comes out of the box ready to backscatter spam people. Yes, it's easy enough to fix. But because it comes stock this way, and is documented to install this way, most people install it to do this. Those of us who work in abuse departments are tired of hearing "well that's how Mailman works". We also object to having to teach people how to fix their mailman installations because it's not documented in the current manual. This is *exactly* like Sendmail 14 years ago. We didn't accept it then, and Sendmail fixed the problem. RESOLUTION: Mailman default installation should not backscatter in a default configuration. 1. Don't create backscatter aliases for subscribe/unsubscribe/etc by default. Nearly everyone uses web based signup. 2. Discard or hold messages from non-subscribers by default. I would think that it would be perfectly reasonable to have documentation on how to enable the 1980s-style -request / -subscribe etc aliases. However this documentation should have a note that this is against the AUP of nearly every network provider, and enabling it will likely cause them to get listed in various blacklists as a backscatter source. FYI: I know that this goes against the instincts of many old-time mailing list advocates here. But after dealing with a 10k/hour backscatter DoS my tolerance for this problem is understandably limited. Yes, it was a sweet day back in the 1980s. I was running a mailing list server and several UUCP gateways at the time, so I remember them well. But those days are past, and we need to deal with the reality of today. -- Jo Rhett Net Consonance : consonant endings by net philanthropy, open source and other randomness

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Re: How strict are the dependencies on the django-compressor related backends?
by Christian Ehrhardt June 11, 2019

June 11, 2019

On Fri, Mar 15, 2019 at 10:19 AM Jonas Smedegaard <dr(a)jones.dk> wrote: > > Quoting Christian Ehrhardt (2019-03-15 06:39:08) > > On Fri, Mar 15, 2019 at 12:08 AM Abhilash Raj <maxking(a)asynchronous.in> wrote: > > > On Thu, Mar 14, 2019, at 1:42 PM, Jonas Meurer wrote: > > > Christian Ehrhardt: > > > > I was evaluating the Dependencies of mailman3 in Ubuntu and I was > > > > wondering if I could cut them down a bit. One thing that got my > > > > attention is the dependency from mailman3-web [1] to nodejs for > > > > less [2] and ruby-sass [3]. > > > > > > > > I was wondering if we could by default not install > > > > node-less/ruby-sass and what exactly that would imply. > > less is a reinvention of sass: It is often adaptable to sass with a > simple patch. > > Original sass processor was ruby-sass, but nowadays a better processor > is sassc. Or if you want to integrated processing with Python then > python3-libsass which uses same core library for its processing. > > I have not looked closely on mailman3, but I highly doubt there is a > real need for dynamic processing of less/sass during runtime. Yeah I doubt that as well. In the meantime I also found [1] which seems to have come to the same conclusion for the majority of default setups. For upstream to disable it by default it was mentioned that there is a need for a customize kit which seems fine [1]. There is a further argument to disable the live compressors, at least as I read COMPRESS_OFFLINE that seems helpful for production setups anyway to speed up and safe CPU load. So while upstream waits until a "customize kit" exists to switch defaults, as a downstream like Debian/Ubuntu I wonder if we already could: - drop sass/less compilers to a suggest - disable the live compression in the default config that we ship - keep the config commented-out to make it easy for admins that want to enable it later - pre-compress at build time and enable compress_offline for speed - maybe call `django_admin compress` [3][4] or similar at build time? - having sass/less as build dependencies seems much safer than pulling it in at runtime @Jonas M.: what do you think about [2] (again maybe after Buster)? Sorry to not know more of this yet, but I hope suggesting what I think might work helps to get us the right way. [1]: https://lists.mailman3.org/archives/list/mailman-users@mailman3.org/thread/… [2]: https://salsa.debian.org/paelzer-guest/mailman-suite/commits/make-sass-less… [3]: https://django-compressor.readthedocs.io/en/latest/usage/#offline-compressi… [4]: https://gitlab.com/mailman/django-mailman3/issues/17#note_81807465 > - Jonas > > -- > * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist & Internet-arkitekt > * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ > > [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > > iQIzBAABCgAdFiEEn+Ppw2aRpp/1PMaELHwxRsGgASEFAlyLbfwACgkQLHwxRsGg > ASHlqw//Vkkke6aulFYeLkq7vQOIt08j+DMMDBpJ/vXapwtQJ2WbWEYsHbbFv75v > k80SILudsOyGMwQ0HKRGqDmhJw2Voi9mWoV2fBQeCQn5w/G9N2Ddw8hAMrzGsLxO > C2FOV8Db0irJ6FS6AO0YQpAselKnnX387AvyWBCpVcWWuydf46pMkPpYajVJTvZg > UZxtBh1epmv/VdQlw2OeLrV+bZJWfjULjr1qFPYdqFnEUnOA2cC44RMagxSV7kNh > JmCc7DvL/VjX/dkPHJCW/VvRrvfxzOR4bimVr7BeuvcjNljlUnKhRwP+PQZt80gp > CbOoVCeEOFJuHwqTlvasUpxo/aSZZPFeF8aQBtdyzefEx9QjjGwx8bYQFn+Zo0CX > TVsB7qWyCwMZIR0DP5+A8ityXQb+FwOTXjySMzO+Z/rA9+h1PHZrK+WJMB0O9z5r > hWYDk3jGSJIkwL+AemE06gUPuSaXZWhzoduI2Mbzs8a20qhrW08Ij338RVGalyhC > QHJT4JoI3bXylaK+IEpH9xxUEW0i8gOge32dBFiqg9/dGFm06Tf3z8dUuBFyXgG3 > BsNJaO6Cn3ghfNS/OfNN04nPS+luPqPQ1r9yZMztrIqwv8oOWyVj1YQpKW1vRN/v > BK/2IpBA+6O3OE2X4RCW8pouwPmsSgMmXpIsuFE61dox/8tOPmE= > =490O > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- Christian Ehrhardt Software Engineer, Ubuntu Server Canonical Ltd

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Season of docs' 19
by Ayush Goel June 6, 2019

June 6, 2019

Hey! I am Ayush Goel, an undergraduate student at IIIT Delhi and am interested in working with GNU Mailman for the Google Season of Docs 19. Currently, I have already joined the mailing list and am setting up Mailman on my Linux machine(will reach out at the mailing list if I encounter any problem). Please guide me on how to proceed further with the application. Looking forward to hearing from you! Yours sincerely Ayush Goel IIIT-Delhi

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Google Season of Docs 2019 Technical Writer
by Ali İlteriş Keskin June 1, 2019

June 1, 2019

Hi, i'm Ali İlteriş Keskin. I'm developer and student from Turkey. I have been using GNU/Linux for more than 4 years. I write Python, Django, Flask since 2016. I want to work with you in Google Docs Season 2019. I would be very happy if you accept me. Good work. Ali İlteriş Keskin

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2019 Season of Docs Project Proposal
by Santos May 28, 2019

May 28, 2019

Hi, My name is Santos Solorzano and I came across GNU Mailman as a participating organization in this year's Season of Docs. I went through the ideas page <https://wiki.list.org/DEV/SeasonOfDocs2019#Project_Ideas> and am hopeful to become one of Mailman's technical writers this year. I came up with a very small documentation proposal and attached the link to this email. I would appreciate any and all feedback. Cheers! https://docs.google.com/document/d/1miNbibuWCByxbAvNktRozlqVEM08sG_kOAJalMp… -- Santos Solorzano

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Mailman documentation for Google Season of Docs
by Shajia Abidi May 23, 2019

May 23, 2019

Dear Mailman Developers, I hope this message finds you well. I was looking over the Mailman Season of Docs page, and I am very interested in contributing as a technical writer. I'm a journalist turned into a Full-Stack Developer. I love to write and code, and I have written several technical and non-technical articles over the years. I'd love this opportunity to contribute as a technical writer at Mailman. As a front-end focused developer, I would love to work on Postorius, the Mailman’s web frontend. Looking forward to hearing from you. Thanks, Shajia Abidi

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running mailman2 supervised
by A. Schulze May 22, 2019

May 22, 2019

Hello, I'm porting a mailman installation from a legacy server into docker. To make it not more complicated I decided to stay on the same mailman version 2.1.29 (build from source) Now I'm faced to the problem that mailman is started with "mailmanctl start" This fork a daemon running in background. In an ideal docker world there is only one process per container. If the process return/end, the container terminate. For now I solved this by running "fghack mailmanctl start" fghack -> https://cr.yp.to/daemontools/fghack.html Q1: is there a better way to start mailman in some kind of non forking mode? Q2: is it possible to run mailman3 supervised? Thanks! Andreas

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A quick hint for Google Season of Docs candidates
by Ye Xiaoxing May 21, 2019

May 21, 2019

Before I begin, I should apologise for being "disappeared" for months - being super busy on my personal life. There are some different places for Mailman project. I am writing this just to help you GSoD candidates understand the documents Mailman using, please correct me if I understand wrong. - ReadTheDocs: The main purpose is for project users, and the pages are generated when pushing to master. There are several sites about Mailman for different projects: - https://mailman.readthedocs.io/en/latest/ - https://hyperkitty.readthedocs.io/en/latest/ - http://docs.mailman3.org/en/latest/ or https://gnu-mailman.readthedocs.io/en/latest/ - this is for Mailman Suite, quite confusing right? - https://mailmanclient.readthedocs.io/en/latest/ - http://docs.mailman3.org/projects/postorius/en/latest/ - ...... - If you are going to modify any of them, you will need to submit a merge request on GitLab. - wiki.list.org: This is a community-driven wiki site for the mailman project. I would say most contents are for Mailman 2 but not the latest one. - If you are going to modify this, you will need to apply for permission. See the front page for instruction. For candidates, I would actually recommend you to install a full set of Mailman 3 to know what this project is (though not required). Here (http://docs.mailman3.org/en/latest/devsetup.html) is a contribution guide for developers, which I think is also suitable for tech writers. Before you write your proposal, please make sure you read the instruction very carefully, including the GSoD official site and https://wiki.list.org/DEV/SeasonOfDocs2019 . Good luck candidates and wish you enjoy the process :) BTW: Mailman is already accepted by GSoD so the wiki page needs some update - I have the permission but maybe I should leave it to admins.

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Link in the webpage---"DEV/SeasonOfDocs2019-MailmanWiki" giving 404
by Aaryan Bhagat May 21, 2019

May 21, 2019

So I was scrolling down the GSoD page of the org and found out that a major link important for GSoD folks under the "Writing Your Application" section is giving 404. I am copy pasting the line here >The [[https://developers.google.com/season-of-docs/docs/|Introduction to Season of Docs page] is the place to start. Check it yourself. P.S -- If someone wants to change something in these wiki pages, how to do that formally, any pointers on this will be helpful

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Mailman Google Season of Docs
by Omar Merghany May 18, 2019

May 18, 2019

Dear Sir, Hope this mail finds you well. I am interested in working on the Mailman documentation for Google Season of Docs. I have read your suggested reading resources of Google Summer of Code and they were helpful. I have started to craft some draft <https://docs.google.com/document/d/18kFuGaKdBh-kGevMRFm9B10EOKdC_SpoIc3bKNu…> for the proposal and I would appreciate if I could get some feedback or if you guide me into specific direction. Looking forward to your reply. Thanks -- Best Regards Omar Merghany <https://www.linkedin.com/in/omarmerghany/>

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