Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
On the other hand, the ad hoc DB integration ideas I've seen discussed to date all have a very strong "works for me" flavor to them. Ie, "if you want something generalizable, then MM people will have to do that, but here's a proof of concept."
Kevin> despite the fact that people have been begging for it for Kevin> half a decade. They beg for it on the Mailman list. They Kevin> beg for it on the Sympa list.
Beg, build, or buy. Plan A has failed. Try Plan B or Plan C.
I guess I have to watch the words I choose. Erase the word "beg", cease any mental imagery it might be conjuring up. I simply mean that there is a clear requirement for easier integration and people have expressed that need. That's all. Should it be articulated better than it has been so far on this list? Yes, probably.
My suggestion is Plan B, because Plan C probably requires a fork (as you mention, Barry is committed elsewhere). If I needed what you need, instead of posting the call for discussion _here_, I would post on *Mailman-Users*:
(1) summarize the current facilities (like MemberAdapter, however weak they may be),
(2) find out what John Dennis has been up to and what ad hoc patches have been submitted, and summarize their interfaces (not the implementations!),
(3) find out what the objections to the methods described in (1) and (2) are, both from would-be users and from the leading developers, and summarize them.
Rather than look at what has been done in the way of patches I'd be more inclined to contribute toward a design for MM3. I have actually worked on the specs for a SQL-enabled MLM system, based on user and admin requirements. Picture an open source version of Lyris but with better integration capabilities. I'd be happy to share them. I worked on it in 2002, so it might take a bit of digging.
And if in fact you're right, the MM developers don't care, and snub you ... you've lost nothing! You've got the spec you need to attract both developers and backing (including funding)---and the MM2.1 code base to start from.
Absolutely right. It would be nice to see developments happen in the MM project, but ultimately another project may be required to make certain things happen.
- Kevin