[ mailman-Bugs-558633 ] Blocked queue after fight with Majordomo
Bugs item #558633, was opened at 2002-05-21 08:01 You can respond by visiting: http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=100103&aid=558633&group_id=103
Category: mail delivery Group: 2.0.x Status: Open Resolution: None Priority: 5 Submitted By: Nigel Metheringham (nigel) Assigned to: Nobody/Anonymous (nobody) Summary: Blocked queue after fight with Majordomo
Initial Comment: On Mailman 2.0.8 (was honestly going to upgrade today!).
It appears that a couple of messages were boucing between the mailman request addresses and a Majordomo server, with more error transcript being added to the message on each bounce. This then appeared to completely block the qrunner. Removing the 2 huge messages from the qfiles directory fixed it.
Broken message qfiles attached.
Comment By: Barry Warsaw (bwarsaw) Date: 2002-05-21 16:47
Message: Logged In: YES user_id=12800
Heh, I think this is a general problem when you get two email robots talking to each other! In MM2.1cvs the robot will refuse to respond to a message marked Precedence: bulk|junk|list -- but it looks like that wouldn't have even helped in this case (since the Majordomo server isnt' setting that header ;/ )
The only other solution I can think of is to add a config variable which is a blacklist of known addresses (regexps) that Mailman should not respond too. You'd still get into the robot infloop the first time, but at least you'd have a hope of avoiding subsequent replybot storms for the same address.
Comment By: Nigel Metheringham (nigel) Date: 2002-05-21 08:03
Message: Logged In: YES user_id=31288
and other file
You can respond by visiting: http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=100103&aid=558633&group_id=103
Heh, I think this is a general problem when you get two email robots talking to each other! In MM2.1cvs the robot will refuse to respond to a message marked Precedence: bulk|junk|list -- but it looks like that wouldn't have even helped in this case (since the Majordomo server isnt' setting that header ;/ )
Rate limiting can do a lot to prevent things from getting out of hand. For example, respond at most ten times to essentially the same request from the same email address.
On any given day, when Mailman gets the tenth message from the same email address without valid commands, it could reply "This is the tenth message of this type today from you. It order to avoid problems like mail loops between email robots, any further messages of this type will be ignored today. Please try again tomorrow." And then any further messages from that address with no valid commands will be just discarded.
Similarly, Mailman would reply only to ten subscription requests for the same list from the same user on any given day. And only to ten unsubscription requests for the same list from the same user on any given day. And only to ten requests to change the subscription options in the same way. Etc.
Since most loops (with the exception of some bounce loops) iterate more quickly than ten times per day, this will kill most loops between robots before they create serious problems.
Greetings, Norbert.
-- A founder of the http://DotGNU.org project and Steering Committee member Norbert Bollow, Weidlistr.18, CH-8624 Gruet (near Zurich, Switzerland) Tel +41 1 972 20 59 Fax +41 1 972 20 69 http://norbert.ch List hosting with GNU Mailman on your own domain name http://cisto.com
I seem to have managed to get CVS installed and running (and finally ironed out my DNS issues), but for some reason, my installation thinks it has no name: invitation messages come from "MAILER-DAEMON" with no domain, and the List headers are for "test1@"
Defaults.py *has* a default email host and URL host... but they didn't get picked up on the build for some reason; I had to key them in manually. Is there somewhere else they are?
Do I have to reinstall *again*?
I'm losing my hair here... <sigh>
Cheers, -- jra
Jay R. Ashworth jra@baylink.com Member of the Technical Staff Baylink RFC 2100 The Suncoast Freenet The Things I Think Tampa Bay, Florida http://baylink.pitas.com +1 727 647 1274
"If you don't have a dream; how're you gonna have a dream come true?" -- Captain Sensible, The Damned (from South Pacific's "Happy Talk")
"JRA" == Jay R Ashworth <jra@baylink.com> writes:
JRA> Defaults.py *has* a default email host and URL host... but
JRA> they didn't get picked up on the build for some reason; I had
JRA> to key them in manually. Is there somewhere else they are?Did you key those in /after/ you created your test list? If so, and if DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST was the empty string at the time you created your list, then I can see how your list's host_name attribute would be the empty string. Remember that changing DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST after the fact doesn't update your list configs.
So, you need to fix host_name (and probably web_page_url). Only the former can be changed on the General admin page. Both of course can be changed via withlist.
Both DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST and DEFAULT_URL_HOST are calculated by configure, so look at your configure output to see if it got the right values or not. If not, then you need to look seriously at your DNS setup, or your Python installation. socket.getfqdn() better return the fully qualified domain name for your machine, or you've got problems, but they ain't in Mailman.
JRA> Do I have to reinstall *again*?You should almost /never/ have to completely reinstall. At worst you might have to re-run configure and "make install", and perhaps do a little fixup with withlist (if your configure screwed up and you didn't catch it until your created some lists).
JRA> I'm losing my hair here... <sigh>i-think-i'm-going-bald-ly y'rs, -Barry
On Wed, May 22, 2002 at 10:27:58PM -0400, Barry A. Warsaw wrote:
"JRA" == Jay R Ashworth <jra@baylink.com> writes: JRA> Defaults.py *has* a default email host and URL host... but JRA> they didn't get picked up on the build for some reason; I had JRA> to key them in manually. Is there somewhere else they are?
Did you key those in /after/ you created your test list? If so, and if DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST was the empty string at the time you created your list, then I can see how your list's host_name attribute would be the empty string. Remember that changing DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST after the fact doesn't update your list configs.
Can't remember it if I don't know it. Thanks.
So, you need to fix host_name (and probably web_page_url). Only the former can be changed on the General admin page. Both of course can be changed via withlist.
Or I can remove the list and reinstantiate it, right?
Both DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST and DEFAULT_URL_HOST are calculated by configure, so look at your configure output to see if it got the right values or not. If not, then you need to look seriously at your DNS setup, or your Python installation. socket.getfqdn() better return the fully qualified domain name for your machine, or you've got problems, but they ain't in Mailman.
They came up empty. Hostname had been set to a name with an underscore in it, which didn't DNS.
JRA> Do I have to reinstall *again*?You should almost /never/ have to completely reinstall. At worst you might have to re-run configure and "make install", and perhaps do a little fixup with withlist (if your configure screwed up and you didn't catch it until your created some lists).
Nah; it'll be easier to reinstall.
No real lists yet.
JRA> I'm losing my hair here... <sigh>i-think-i'm-going-bald-ly y'rs,
<ass type="smart">
Cheers, -- jra
Jay R. Ashworth jra@baylink.com Member of the Technical Staff Baylink RFC 2100 The Suncoast Freenet The Things I Think Tampa Bay, Florida http://baylink.pitas.com +1 727 647 1274
"If you don't have a dream; how're you gonna have a dream come true?" -- Captain Sensible, The Damned (from South Pacific's "Happy Talk")
"JRA" == Jay R Ashworth <jra@baylink.com> writes:
JRA> Can't remember it if I don't know it. Thanks.Ah cool. It's an important point that should go in the site admin document <wink>.
>> So, you need to fix host_name (and probably web_page_url).
>> Only the former can be changed on the General admin page. Both
>> of course can be changed via withlist.
JRA> Or I can remove the list and reinstantiate it, right?Yup, if you've got nothing important in the list.
JRA> They came up empty. Hostname had been set to a name with an
JRA> underscore in it, which didn't DNS.Ah, okay.
JRA> Nah; it'll be easier to reinstall.
JRA> No real lists yet.Just fix mm_cfg.py and blow away the list. You should be good then.
>> JRA> I'm losing my hair here... <sigh>
>> i-think-i'm-going-bald-ly y'rs,
JRA> <ass type="smart"><rush album="cos">
:) -Barry
On Wed, May 22, 2002 at 11:33:16PM -0400, Barry A. Warsaw wrote:
"JRA" == Jay R Ashworth <jra@baylink.com> writes: JRA> Can't remember it if I don't know it. Thanks.
Ah cool. It's an important point that should go in the site admin document <wink>.
Yeah, yeah; just as soon as I rush the rush job that I'm rushing to rush now. Did you ever actually set up that list?
JRA> Or I can remove the list and reinstantiate it, right?Yup, if you've got nothing important in the list.
Nope.
JRA> No real lists yet.Just fix mm_cfg.py and blow away the list. You should be good then.
Cool.
>> JRA> I'm losing my hair here... <sigh> >> i-think-i'm-going-bald-ly y'rs, JRA> <ass type="smart"><rush album="cos">
<chuckle>
Cheers,
j
Jay R. Ashworth jra@baylink.com Member of the Technical Staff Baylink RFC 2100 The Suncoast Freenet The Things I Think Tampa Bay, Florida http://baylink.pitas.com +1 727 647 1274
"If you don't have a dream; how're you gonna have a dream come true?" -- Captain Sensible, The Damned (from South Pacific's "Happy Talk")
"JRA" == Jay R Ashworth <jra@baylink.com> writes:
JRA> Yeah, yeah; just as soon as I rush the rush job that I'm
JRA> rushing to rush now. Did you ever actually set up that list?Now /that's/ the spirit! (of radio?)
I actually did set the list up, but I haven't advertised it enough. I will try to get a wider announcement out about it asap.
-Barry
On Thu, May 23, 2002 at 11:02:11AM -0400, Barry A. Warsaw wrote:
"JRA" == Jay R Ashworth <jra@baylink.com> writes: JRA> Yeah, yeah; just as soon as I rush the rush job that I'm JRA> rushing to rush now. Did you ever actually set up that list?
Now /that's/ the spirit! (of radio?)
Telvision, in my case.
I actually did set the list up, but I haven't advertised it enough. I will try to get a wider announcement out about it asap.
Did you sign me on? -- j
Jay R. Ashworth jra@baylink.com Member of the Technical Staff Baylink RFC 2100 The Suncoast Freenet The Things I Think Tampa Bay, Florida http://baylink.pitas.com +1 727 647 1274
"If you don't have a dream; how're you gonna have a dream come true?" -- Captain Sensible, The Damned (from South Pacific's "Happy Talk")
At 23:21 -0400 5/22/2002, Jay R. Ashworth wrote:
On Wed, May 22, 2002 at 10:27:58PM -0400, Barry A. Warsaw wrote: ...
So, you need to fix host_name (and probably web_page_url). Only the former can be changed on the General admin page. Both of course can be changed via withlist.
Or I can remove the list and reinstantiate it, right?
Yes, but if you are at the stage of the list's lifetime when that is appropriate, then it would seem that this list is a good one on which to practice using bin/withlist. Unless you're already comfortable with it.
--John
-- John Baxter jwblist@olympus.net Port Ludlow, WA, USA
On Wed, May 22, 2002 at 09:35:43PM -0700, John W Baxter wrote:
At 23:21 -0400 5/22/2002, Jay R. Ashworth wrote:
On Wed, May 22, 2002 at 10:27:58PM -0400, Barry A. Warsaw wrote: ...
So, you need to fix host_name (and probably web_page_url). Only the former can be changed on the General admin page. Both of course can be changed via withlist.
Or I can remove the list and reinstantiate it, right?
Yes, but if you are at the stage of the list's lifetime when that is appropriate, then it would seem that this list is a good one on which to practice using bin/withlist. Unless you're already comfortable with it.
That's actaully an excellent point which both I and Barry missed. Thanks.
Cheers, -- jra
Jay R. Ashworth jra@baylink.com Member of the Technical Staff Baylink RFC 2100 The Suncoast Freenet The Things I Think Tampa Bay, Florida http://baylink.pitas.com +1 727 647 1274
"If you don't have a dream; how're you gonna have a dream come true?" -- Captain Sensible, The Damned (from South Pacific's "Happy Talk")
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