Question on Subscription Moderation
So in my Postorius setup, I received a subscription request that required moderation. I chose to ban that email address and was taken to the ban list section to 'really' ban the address. Which I did and the email address shows up under the 'Currently banned addresses' list. However, I notice that the pending subscription moderation notice is still showing. I go back to the 'Subscriptions pending approval' page and I see the recently banned email address is still showing so I decided to approve the subscription. Now I have an email address that is both banned (first) and subscribed (second) to the mailing list.
Can someone explain what is going on here?
Thanks, Brian
Hi all,
I wonder if mass subscribe should be exempted from the ban list check, what do you all think? It would be convenient for me, as students often change or add personal addresses, and I have to do an unban, subscribe, reban dance. (See my use case below.)
Richard Damon writes:
I presume this is working like MM2, where the ban list is checked at the subscription request point,
That's correct. I'm a little surprised that this works, actually, since the mass subscribe function is *also* prevented from subscribing banned addresses. Apparently the ban check is just a little bit after where mass subscribe comes in, but earlier in the chain than the moderation hold and dance. Which makes sense, since to point of a ban is to save the moderator work!
yes, you can have subscription requests and subscriptions from a banned email address, those addresses just can't start the process.
It has to work this way for the subscriptions. For example, my advisee lists got hit by subscription spam a while back. Since I know who the students are and mass subscribe them every year in April (beginning of our academic year), I just hit the spammers with DISCARD ^. ;-) (The smiley is not part of the regexp. :-) If that caused existing subscriptions to be invalidated, it would be a big problem.
On 4/7/20 10:21 AM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
Please don't do that. If an ISP is on a Feedback Loop and receives spam reports from list members, then that ISP has to remove those list members if the list owner won't. Adding those spam reporters to the ban list can prevent the list owner from resubscribing those troublesome members who will just be reporting their list posts as spam all over again.
This still doesn't explain:
Why is there still an open moderation task to do when the list owner chooses the ban option. It is confusing to see the open moderation task still there after selecting the ban button for the moderated subscriber. I know mailman 2 does not do that. Having something in place that emulates how Mailman 2 handles the ban of a moderated subscriber prevents the following:
The ability to still accept a moderated subscriber after they have been ban still should not be allowed. Again it can be confusing. I don't like my paying List Owners confused.
-- Please let me know if you need further assistance.
Thank you for your business. We appreciate our clients. Brian Carpenter EMWD.com
-- EMWD's Knowledgebase: https://clientarea.emwd.com/index.php/knowledgebase
EMWD's Community Forums http://discourse.emwd.com/
Brian Carpenter writes:
OK, it needs to be more nuanced than that. Perhaps it's worth distinguishing between addresses that have been specifically banned and those caught by regexps, or perhaps I missed an option that allows shutting down self-subscriptions completely rather than via the ban list.
I think Mark responded to all your other comments, and I hope the patch in 3.3.1 works as expected.
Steve
On 4/7/20 4:27 AM, brian_carpenter@emwd.com wrote:
So in my Postorius setup, I received a subscription request that required moderation. I chose to ban that email address and was taken to the ban list section to 'really' ban the address. Which I did and the email address shows up under the 'Currently banned addresses' list. However, I notice that the pending subscription moderation notice is still showing. I go back to the 'Subscriptions pending approval' page and I see the recently banned email address is still showing so I decided to approve the subscription. Now I have an email address that is both banned (first) and subscribed (second) to the mailing list.
See <https://gitlab.com/mailman/mailman/-/issues/642>. This is fixed in core 3.3.1. Note however that even though the banned address is subscribed, it can't post.
-- Mark Sapiro <mark@msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan
Hi all,
I wonder if mass subscribe should be exempted from the ban list check, what do you all think? It would be convenient for me, as students often change or add personal addresses, and I have to do an unban, subscribe, reban dance. (See my use case below.)
Richard Damon writes:
I presume this is working like MM2, where the ban list is checked at the subscription request point,
That's correct. I'm a little surprised that this works, actually, since the mass subscribe function is *also* prevented from subscribing banned addresses. Apparently the ban check is just a little bit after where mass subscribe comes in, but earlier in the chain than the moderation hold and dance. Which makes sense, since to point of a ban is to save the moderator work!
yes, you can have subscription requests and subscriptions from a banned email address, those addresses just can't start the process.
It has to work this way for the subscriptions. For example, my advisee lists got hit by subscription spam a while back. Since I know who the students are and mass subscribe them every year in April (beginning of our academic year), I just hit the spammers with DISCARD ^. ;-) (The smiley is not part of the regexp. :-) If that caused existing subscriptions to be invalidated, it would be a big problem.
On 4/7/20 10:21 AM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
Please don't do that. If an ISP is on a Feedback Loop and receives spam reports from list members, then that ISP has to remove those list members if the list owner won't. Adding those spam reporters to the ban list can prevent the list owner from resubscribing those troublesome members who will just be reporting their list posts as spam all over again.
This still doesn't explain:
Why is there still an open moderation task to do when the list owner chooses the ban option. It is confusing to see the open moderation task still there after selecting the ban button for the moderated subscriber. I know mailman 2 does not do that. Having something in place that emulates how Mailman 2 handles the ban of a moderated subscriber prevents the following:
The ability to still accept a moderated subscriber after they have been ban still should not be allowed. Again it can be confusing. I don't like my paying List Owners confused.
-- Please let me know if you need further assistance.
Thank you for your business. We appreciate our clients. Brian Carpenter EMWD.com
-- EMWD's Knowledgebase: https://clientarea.emwd.com/index.php/knowledgebase
EMWD's Community Forums http://discourse.emwd.com/
Brian Carpenter writes:
OK, it needs to be more nuanced than that. Perhaps it's worth distinguishing between addresses that have been specifically banned and those caught by regexps, or perhaps I missed an option that allows shutting down self-subscriptions completely rather than via the ban list.
I think Mark responded to all your other comments, and I hope the patch in 3.3.1 works as expected.
Steve
On 4/7/20 4:27 AM, brian_carpenter@emwd.com wrote:
So in my Postorius setup, I received a subscription request that required moderation. I chose to ban that email address and was taken to the ban list section to 'really' ban the address. Which I did and the email address shows up under the 'Currently banned addresses' list. However, I notice that the pending subscription moderation notice is still showing. I go back to the 'Subscriptions pending approval' page and I see the recently banned email address is still showing so I decided to approve the subscription. Now I have an email address that is both banned (first) and subscribed (second) to the mailing list.
See <https://gitlab.com/mailman/mailman/-/issues/642>. This is fixed in core 3.3.1. Note however that even though the banned address is subscribed, it can't post.
-- Mark Sapiro <mark@msapiro.net> The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan
participants (5)
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Brian Carpenter -
brian_carpenter＠emwd.com
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Mark Sapiro -
Richard Damon -
Stephen J. Turnbull