Re: [Mailman-Developers] Re: 2006 archives already online!
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Bill Bumgarner <bbum@CODEFAB.COM> writes:
That's why under "archival options" you'll find:
"Set date in archive to when the mail is claimed to have been sent, or to the time we resend it?"
If you leave it on 'when sent', you deserve the mess you'll get in your archives.
Darrell
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On Mon, Apr 30, 2001 at 09:28:51PM +0200, Fil wrote:
I very firmly believe this, and so do all the people who have archives showing messages with dates of 2004 or 1990. http://lists.svlug.org/pipermail/svlug/
I've asked the same thing in the past, but it didn't go through.
Please? :-)
Marc
Microsoft is to operating systems & security .... .... what McDonalds is to gourmet cooking
Home page: http://marc.merlins.org/ | Finger marc_f@merlins.org for PGP key
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On Mon, Apr 30, 2001 at 03:41:46PM -0700, Marc MERLIN wrote:
Concur, FWIW.
Cheers, -- jra
Jay R. Ashworth jra@baylink.com Member of the Technical Staff Baylink The Suncoast Freenet The Things I Think Tampa Bay, Florida http://baylink.pitas.com +1 727 804 5015
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"F" == Fil <fil@rezo.net> writes:
F> "When sent" is the default. How do you change the default to
F> "When Resent"? Shouldn't it be changed in the mailman's
F> Defaults.py ?
"MM" == Marc MERLIN <marc_news@valinux.com> writes:
MM> I very firmly believe this, and so do all the people who have
MM> archives showing messages with dates of 2004 or 1990.
MM> http://lists.svlug.org/pipermail/svlug/
MM> I've asked the same thing in the past, but it didn't go
MM> through.
We've talked in the past of adding an option to clobber_date to only munge dates when they're outrageous. This turns out to be easy to do, and I'm willing to add it for 2.1 (I'm hacking the code right now).
However, it seems to me that this really ought to be a site-wide configuration instead of a list-specific configuration. I don't see a whole lot of value in allowing lists to individually clobber the dates. I see this as going hand-in-hand with external archiving; e.g. you may not want to clober the date if you're using an external archiver, because perhaps it performs its /own/ sanity checks on the Date: header.
So my proposal is to
get rid of clobber_date as a list-specific variable
add a site variable ARCHIVER_CLOBBER_DATE_POLICY which takes one of three values: 0 (never override the original message's Date: header); 1 (always override the original message's Date: header with the `processed' date); 2 (only override the header if the date is outrageous).
add a site variable ARCHIVER_ALLOWABLE_SANE_DATE_SKEW which specifies a time in seconds outside of which the Date will be considered outrageous (i.e if its either too early or too late).
Comments? -Barry
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"BAW" == Barry A Warsaw <barry@digicool.com> writes:
BAW> So my proposal is to
BAW> - get rid of clobber_date as a list-specific variable
BAW> - add a site variable ARCHIVER_CLOBBER_DATE_POLICY which
BAW> - add a site variable ARCHIVER_ALLOWABLE_SANE_DATE_SKEW which
Oh yeah, the defaults would be
ARCHIVER_CLOBBER_DATE_POLICY = 2 ARCHIVER_ALLOWABLE_SANE_DATE_SKEW = days(90)
so if the message had a Date: header earlier or later than 90 days from now, it would get the header overridden. Note that this munging happens before the message is handed to the archiver, and it occurs regardless of whether Pipermail or an external archiver handles it. The original Date: header will be put on X-Original-Date (does that need to be configurable?)
-Barry
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On Mon, 30 Apr 2001, Barry A. Warsaw wrote:
<snip>
So far so good as usual!
BAW>ARCHIVER_CLOBBER_DATE_POLICY = 2 BAW>ARCHIVER_ALLOWABLE_SANE_DATE_SKEW = days(90)
IMHO 90 It's too long as default! Why?
O. W. Kind regards.
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"OW" == Ousmane Wilane <wilane@mint.sn> writes:
OW> So far so good as usual!
Thanks!
BAW> ARCHIVER_CLOBBER_DATE_POLICY = 2
BAW> ARCHIVER_ALLOWABLE_SANE_DATE_SKEW = days(90)
OW> IMHO 90 It's too long as default! Why?
I figure most of the outrageous headers are something on the order of /years/ away, and I just picked 90 days out of a hat. I think it ought to be greater than the average retry interval in case a Mailman site is unavailable for a few days. So, suggest something more reasonable in between 5 and 90 days! :)
-Barry
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- (Barry A. Warsaw)
| So, suggest something more reasonable in between 5 and 90 days! :)
A week, or maximum 30 days. IMHO.
-- Tollef Fog Heen Unix _IS_ user friendly... It's just selective about who its friends are. (and please stop using the DUL, it's broken)
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On Mon, Apr 30, 2001 at 11:46:16PM -0400, Barry A. Warsaw wrote:
That sounds good to me, although, as someone noted, perhaps 90 days is a bit long. Did you pull that number out of your butt, or was there a specific motivation for it?
Cheers.
jra
Jay R. Ashworth jra@baylink.com Member of the Technical Staff Baylink The Suncoast Freenet The Things I Think Tampa Bay, Florida http://baylink.pitas.com +1 727 804 5015
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"JRA" == Jay R Ashworth <jra@baylink.com> writes:
JRA> That sounds good to me, although, as someone noted, perhaps
JRA> 90 days is a bit long. Did you pull that number out of your
JRA> butt, or was there a specific motivation for it?
See my other message. Although I'd like to think that my brain's located a little higher up in my anatomy <wink>, you're not far off.
-Barry
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On Tue, May 01, 2001 at 12:27:16AM -0400, Barry A. Warsaw wrote:
Well, the implication was that your brain wasn't involved in the thing.
Cheers, -- jra
Jay R. Ashworth jra@baylink.com Member of the Technical Staff Baylink The Suncoast Freenet The Things I Think Tampa Bay, Florida http://baylink.pitas.com +1 727 804 5015
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"JRA" == Jay R Ashworth <jra@baylink.com> writes:
JRA> Well, the implication was that your brain wasn't involved in
JRA> the thing.
Ah some new entries for my X-Oblique-Strategy file:
Trust the Butt
The Butt Knows Best
When in Doubt, ButtThink
? :) -Barry
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On Tue, May 01, 2001 at 01:00:14AM -0400, Barry A. Warsaw wrote:
Use the farts, Luke.
or, alternatively:
Luke... *I* am your farter.
Cheers, -- jra
Jay R. Ashworth jra@baylink.com Member of the Technical Staff Baylink The Suncoast Freenet The Things I Think Tampa Bay, Florida http://baylink.pitas.com +1 727 804 5015
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At 10:35 AM 5/1/01 -0400, Ron Jarrell wrote:
Barry Warsaw: The Man Who's Thoughts You Can Light....
(ducking and running very, very fast...)
(Also using grammar very, very poorly... The things that come out of your fingers when you actually do know better. Sheesh.)
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On Mon, Apr 30, 2001 at 09:28:51PM +0200, Fil wrote:
I very firmly believe this, and so do all the people who have archives showing messages with dates of 2004 or 1990. http://lists.svlug.org/pipermail/svlug/
I've asked the same thing in the past, but it didn't go through.
Please? :-)
Marc
Microsoft is to operating systems & security .... .... what McDonalds is to gourmet cooking
Home page: http://marc.merlins.org/ | Finger marc_f@merlins.org for PGP key
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On Mon, Apr 30, 2001 at 03:41:46PM -0700, Marc MERLIN wrote:
Concur, FWIW.
Cheers, -- jra
Jay R. Ashworth jra@baylink.com Member of the Technical Staff Baylink The Suncoast Freenet The Things I Think Tampa Bay, Florida http://baylink.pitas.com +1 727 804 5015
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"F" == Fil <fil@rezo.net> writes:
F> "When sent" is the default. How do you change the default to
F> "When Resent"? Shouldn't it be changed in the mailman's
F> Defaults.py ?
"MM" == Marc MERLIN <marc_news@valinux.com> writes:
MM> I very firmly believe this, and so do all the people who have
MM> archives showing messages with dates of 2004 or 1990.
MM> http://lists.svlug.org/pipermail/svlug/
MM> I've asked the same thing in the past, but it didn't go
MM> through.
We've talked in the past of adding an option to clobber_date to only munge dates when they're outrageous. This turns out to be easy to do, and I'm willing to add it for 2.1 (I'm hacking the code right now).
However, it seems to me that this really ought to be a site-wide configuration instead of a list-specific configuration. I don't see a whole lot of value in allowing lists to individually clobber the dates. I see this as going hand-in-hand with external archiving; e.g. you may not want to clober the date if you're using an external archiver, because perhaps it performs its /own/ sanity checks on the Date: header.
So my proposal is to
get rid of clobber_date as a list-specific variable
add a site variable ARCHIVER_CLOBBER_DATE_POLICY which takes one of three values: 0 (never override the original message's Date: header); 1 (always override the original message's Date: header with the `processed' date); 2 (only override the header if the date is outrageous).
add a site variable ARCHIVER_ALLOWABLE_SANE_DATE_SKEW which specifies a time in seconds outside of which the Date will be considered outrageous (i.e if its either too early or too late).
Comments? -Barry
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"BAW" == Barry A Warsaw <barry@digicool.com> writes:
BAW> So my proposal is to
BAW> - get rid of clobber_date as a list-specific variable
BAW> - add a site variable ARCHIVER_CLOBBER_DATE_POLICY which
BAW> - add a site variable ARCHIVER_ALLOWABLE_SANE_DATE_SKEW which
Oh yeah, the defaults would be
ARCHIVER_CLOBBER_DATE_POLICY = 2 ARCHIVER_ALLOWABLE_SANE_DATE_SKEW = days(90)
so if the message had a Date: header earlier or later than 90 days from now, it would get the header overridden. Note that this munging happens before the message is handed to the archiver, and it occurs regardless of whether Pipermail or an external archiver handles it. The original Date: header will be put on X-Original-Date (does that need to be configurable?)
-Barry
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On Mon, 30 Apr 2001, Barry A. Warsaw wrote:
<snip>
So far so good as usual!
BAW>ARCHIVER_CLOBBER_DATE_POLICY = 2 BAW>ARCHIVER_ALLOWABLE_SANE_DATE_SKEW = days(90)
IMHO 90 It's too long as default! Why?
O. W. Kind regards.
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"OW" == Ousmane Wilane <wilane@mint.sn> writes:
OW> So far so good as usual!
Thanks!
BAW> ARCHIVER_CLOBBER_DATE_POLICY = 2
BAW> ARCHIVER_ALLOWABLE_SANE_DATE_SKEW = days(90)
OW> IMHO 90 It's too long as default! Why?
I figure most of the outrageous headers are something on the order of /years/ away, and I just picked 90 days out of a hat. I think it ought to be greater than the average retry interval in case a Mailman site is unavailable for a few days. So, suggest something more reasonable in between 5 and 90 days! :)
-Barry
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- (Barry A. Warsaw)
| So, suggest something more reasonable in between 5 and 90 days! :)
A week, or maximum 30 days. IMHO.
-- Tollef Fog Heen Unix _IS_ user friendly... It's just selective about who its friends are. (and please stop using the DUL, it's broken)
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On Mon, Apr 30, 2001 at 11:46:16PM -0400, Barry A. Warsaw wrote:
That sounds good to me, although, as someone noted, perhaps 90 days is a bit long. Did you pull that number out of your butt, or was there a specific motivation for it?
Cheers.
jra
Jay R. Ashworth jra@baylink.com Member of the Technical Staff Baylink The Suncoast Freenet The Things I Think Tampa Bay, Florida http://baylink.pitas.com +1 727 804 5015
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"JRA" == Jay R Ashworth <jra@baylink.com> writes:
JRA> That sounds good to me, although, as someone noted, perhaps
JRA> 90 days is a bit long. Did you pull that number out of your
JRA> butt, or was there a specific motivation for it?
See my other message. Although I'd like to think that my brain's located a little higher up in my anatomy <wink>, you're not far off.
-Barry
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On Tue, May 01, 2001 at 12:27:16AM -0400, Barry A. Warsaw wrote:
Well, the implication was that your brain wasn't involved in the thing.
Cheers, -- jra
Jay R. Ashworth jra@baylink.com Member of the Technical Staff Baylink The Suncoast Freenet The Things I Think Tampa Bay, Florida http://baylink.pitas.com +1 727 804 5015
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"JRA" == Jay R Ashworth <jra@baylink.com> writes:
JRA> Well, the implication was that your brain wasn't involved in
JRA> the thing.
Ah some new entries for my X-Oblique-Strategy file:
Trust the Butt
The Butt Knows Best
When in Doubt, ButtThink
? :) -Barry
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On Tue, May 01, 2001 at 01:00:14AM -0400, Barry A. Warsaw wrote:
Use the farts, Luke.
or, alternatively:
Luke... *I* am your farter.
Cheers, -- jra
Jay R. Ashworth jra@baylink.com Member of the Technical Staff Baylink The Suncoast Freenet The Things I Think Tampa Bay, Florida http://baylink.pitas.com +1 727 804 5015
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At 10:35 AM 5/1/01 -0400, Ron Jarrell wrote:
Barry Warsaw: The Man Who's Thoughts You Can Light....
(ducking and running very, very fast...)
(Also using grammar very, very poorly... The things that come out of your fingers when you actually do know better. Sheesh.)
participants (8)
-
barry@digicool.com
-
Darrell Fuhriman
-
Fil
-
Jay R. Ashworth
-
Marc MERLIN
-
Ousmane Wilane
-
Ron Jarrell
-
Tollef Fog Heen