Re: [Mailman-Developers] Migrating Postorius and Hyperkitty to Python 3
What's the state for Centos? I think it was the last likely distro we cared about with old python needs, but I'm not sure core supports it at all any more.
On October 1, 2017 2:12:46 PM PDT, Abhilash Raj <maxking@asynchronous.in> wrote:
Hi All,
Mailman uses Django web framework for the web based frontends, Postorius
- The Official UI, and Hyperkitty - The official Archiver. They are both Django "apps" which means that they can be plugged into any other existing Django "project" (aka Django "installation") to work alongside other apps that people might be running.
Currently, both the Django apps we have are Python 2 only, we have talked about moving to Python 3 but we decided we want it to be bilingual (support both 2 & 3). The reason we decided that was because if people would want to embed Postorius & Hyperkitty in their installations, they need to be able to run it under whatever python versions they are using.
I want to revisit this assumption for being bilingual. Currently, there is no supported version of Django which doesn't support Python 3. Starting from v2.0, set to release in December 2017, Django is going to drop Python2 support. Now, that doesn't mean no one can run Django under Python2, 1.11 (LTS version) supports Python2 and will be supported probably till Python 2 is supported (April 2020 according to 1).
I believe that our (limited) development efforts would be best utilized if we just drop the support for Python 2 in Postorius & Hyperkitty instead of trying to be bilingual. Any day one of our dependencies may decide to do the same, and we would have to then use Python 3 anyway. Also, dropping Python 2 support doesn't seem like a lot of pain for anyone, you just need another instance of Django running, which is not *that* hard using uwsgi (in Emperor mode). I believe most of our dependencies should support Python 3, or should have a good enough replacement if it doesn't.
Thoughts?
-- Abhilash Raj maxking@asynchronous.in
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On Sun, Oct 8, 2017, at 02:39 PM, Terri Oda wrote:
What's the state for Centos? I think it was the last likely distro we cared about with old python needs, but I'm not sure core supports it at all any more. I am not sure about the state of CentOS, but Core doesn't support Python 2 anymore. So, in theory, if you need to run Mailman 3, you need Python 3 anyway as the API isn't meant to be exposed outside of a single host. Also, I don't know about the state of containers support in distros, but with containers, there is always an option to run Python3 even if their distro doesn't support.
On October 1, 2017 2:12:46 PM PDT, Abhilash Raj <maxking@asynchronous.in> wrote:>> Hi All,
Mailman uses Django web framework for the web based frontends, Postorius
- The Official UI, and Hyperkitty - The official Archiver. They are both Django "apps" which means that they can be plugged into any other existing Django "project" (aka Django "installation") to work alongside other apps that people might be running.
Currently, both the Django apps we have are Python 2 only, we have
talked about moving to Python 3 but we decided we want it to be
bilingual (support both 2 & 3). The reason we decided that was because
if people would want to embed Postorius & Hyperkitty in their
installations, they need to be able to run it under whatever python
versions they are using.
I want to revisit this assumption for being bilingual. Currently, there
is no supported version of Django which doesn't support Python 3. Starting from v2.0, set to release in December 2017, Django is going to drop Python2 support. Now, that doesn't mean no one can run Django under Python2, 1.11 (LTS version) supports Python2 and will be supported probably till Python 2 is supported (April 2020 according to 1).
I believe that our (limited) development efforts would be best utilized
if we just drop the support for Python 2 in Postorius & Hyperkitty instead of trying to be bilingual. Any day one of our dependencies may decide to do the same, and we would have to then use Python 3 anyway. Also, dropping Python 2 support doesn't seem like a lot of pain for anyone, you just need another instance of Django running, which is not *that* hard using uwsgi (in Emperor mode). I believe most of our dependencies should support Python 3, or should have a good enough replacement if it doesn't.
Thoughts?
-- Abhilash Raj maxking@asynchronous.in
Terri Oda writes:
What's the state for Centos? I think it was the last likely distro we cared about with old python needs, but I'm not sure core supports it at all any more.
Do we need to worry about current distros?
We're still seeing plenty of questions about new installations of Mailman 2 on mailman-users. Mailman 3 is still a double-diamond application. As I wrote in a different thread, I don't think Mailman 3 is going to be ready for the mom & pop listowner for a while. If versions of Centos (or whatever) don't support Python 3 by then, "let them run containers". :-)
Steve
-- Associate Professor Division of Policy and Planning Science http://turnbull/sk.tsukuba.ac.jp/ Faculty of Systems and Information Email: turnbull@sk.tsukuba.ac.jp University of Tsukuba Tel: 029-853-5175 Tennodai 1-1-1, Tsukuba 305-8573 JAPAN
On Oct 9, 2017, at 03:55, Stephen J. Turnbull <turnbull.stephen.fw@u.tsukuba.ac.jp> wrote:
Do we need to worry about current distros?
Probably not, as you point out.
We're still seeing plenty of questions about new installations of Mailman 2 on mailman-users. Mailman 3 is still a double-diamond application. As I wrote in a different thread, I don't think Mailman 3 is going to be ready for the mom & pop listowner for a while. If versions of Centos (or whatever) don't support Python 3 by then, "let them run containers". :-)
Yep, and we have a good container story now, so I think that’s entirely viable. There is work being done on Debian packaging for MM3 and I think having everything on Python 3 should make that story better too. (Debian unstable does have Python3 Django).
-Barry
participants (4)
-
Abhilash Raj -
Barry Warsaw -
Stephen J. Turnbull -
Terri Oda