Fwd: Volunteer sought to code Mailman/Plesk integration script for use by African organizations
Dear Mailman developers -
Below is a message I attempted to post to the Python jobs board, but which never appeared there. As it is directly relevant to Mailman, I hope you don't mind that I also share it with you all directly. I am quite keen on solving this problem as soon as possible. Please let me know if you're interested and I'll give you the gory details. Any useful scripts or lessons learned shared back to the community, of course.
Cheers,
Tobias +1-202-265-6116
-- Tobias Eigen Executive Director
Kabissa - Space for Change in Africa http://www.kabissa.org
- Kabissa's vision is for a socially, economically, politically, and environmentally vibrant Africa, supported by a strong network of effective civil society organizations. *
Begin forwarded message:
From: Tobias Eigen tobias@kabissa.org Date: January 12, 2005 6:21:46 AM EST To: jobs@python.org Subject: Volunteer sought to code Mailman/Plesk integration script for use by African organizations
Kabissa - Space for Change in Africa <http://www.kabissa.org>_ (Washington DC, USA)**Job Description**: Volunteer sought to code Mailman/Plesk integration script for use by African organizations
Kabissa helps African organizations to put the Internet to work for the people they serve. A key aspect of this is maintaining a server which our member organizations in Africa use to host Websites, mailboxes - and mailing lists.
We need one-off help from a Linux/open source coder, which might turn into more regular volunteering if there is interest, to write code that integrates our existing Mailman (http://www.list.org) installation with the new version of Plesk (http://www.plesk.com) server administration tool. The goal is to empower our members to use Plesk to create, manage and then delete their own lists autonomously.
We know it is possible and have tested it on a manual basis on specific lists, but need some additional coding done to make it work on a turnkey basis for all lists on the server.
Any work done to be released (with credit where due) to the open source community.
You will need to have your own testing server.
**What Python is used for**: Mailman. The integration script could be a python script but doesn't need to be.
- **Contact**: Tobias Eigen
- **E-mail contact**: tobias@kabissa.org
- **Other Contact Info**: +1-202-265-6116
- **Web**: http://www.kabissa.org
At 2:22 PM -0500 2005-01-15, Tobias Eigen wrote:
As it is directly relevant to Mailman, Ihope you don't mind that I also share it with you all directly.
I have no problem with this. IMO, we should have a place where requests of this sort would properly belong, even though they aren't paying jobs. But that's just my personal opinion.
I amquite keen on solving this problem as soon as possible. Please let me know if you're interested and I'll give you the gory details. Any useful scripts or lessons learned shared back to the community, of course.
It's funny. A totally different question regarding integration between Mailman and Plesk finally lead me to create FAQ 6.15 at http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq06.015.htp.
Only now that I happen to be looking through my Python-related e-mail for other things, do I come back to this and realize that you're talking about the same sort of thing -- only you're talking about fixing the problem that we cannot (today) fix ourselves.
Of course, when you're talking about simulating the functionality of Yahoo!Groups, there's also FAQ 1.26 at http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.026.htp.
Speaking only for myself, I would very much like to see us get to a situation where we can eliminate these two FAQ entries, and basically "just make it work". I think this would be a huge benefit to the entire Mailman community.
I can't help you with the Python coding, and I don't know squat about Plesk, but if you need help with Mailman administration, please let me know.
I'm willing to step up and do what I can to help towards this goal, and I hope that other people on this list are willing and able to do the same.
-- Brad Knowles, brad@stop.mail-abuse.org
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
-- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755SAGE member since 1995. See http://www.sage.org/ for more info.
Hi Brad,
As regards your two faq questions -
It's funny. A totally different question regarding integration
between Mailman and Plesk finally lead me to create FAQ 6.15 at
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py? req=show&file=faq06.015.htp>.
This FAQ I think is still perfectly adequate, except perhaps you may
want to refer people to the Plesk Forum at http://forum.sw-soft.com/
for help. SW-SOFT is notoriously soft (I mean poor) on tech support for
end users, although folks on the forum are really helpful. There's alot
of community support archived in there waiting to be searched for using
the keyword 'mailman'. For us Rackspace (our hosting provider) is also
very helpful, but we have been nurturing a relationship with them over
the course of the last couple of years and they know I have been trying
very hard to solve most Mailman problems on my own and only turn to
them when I've hit a dead end.
Any version of Plesk higher than Plesk 7 comes with an older version of
Mailman installed, and enables Plesk clients to add/remove mailman
lists through their control panel. This is nifty, but does not come
with the benefits of newer versions of Mailman, and because it seems so
simple it trips alot of people up since it encourages them to set up
Mailman lists when really they probably only need something simpler.
It is possible to trick Plesk into recognizing newer versions installed
manually but it's not for the faint of heart. For me the trick is the
combination of the qmail-to-mailman script which I've been using
solidly for years and the new scripts I now have (and will share as
soon as I'm positive it's working correctly) that scan the maildir
directories and make sure the .qmail aliases created by Plesk for lists
are all correctly pointing to the qmail-to-mailman script. Works like a
charm!
Only now that I happen to be looking through my Python-related e-mail
for other things, do I come back to this and realize that you're
talking about the same sort of thing -- only you're talking about
fixing the problem that we cannot (today) fix ourselves.Of course, when you're talking about simulating the functionality of
Yahoo!Groups, there's also FAQ 1.26 at
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py? req=show&file=faq01.026.htp>.
I think this FAQ needs to be updated. I would not recommend m2f which
has been stuck at beta for a very long time and seems to be going
nowhere fast. Love the dedication of those guys but really it seems
they've bitten off more than they can chew. A successful forum/list
integration is done over at the unfortunately named FUDFORUM -
http://www.fudforum.org. We use it very actively for two discussion
lists and it has perfect bidirectional communication between the
Mailman lists and forums. I am incredibly impressed by what the single
developer of FUD has been able to achieve with this forum. Very much to
be recommended. He also helped me personally to make it work with
Mailman by making it possible to put the list name on the command line
so that I could set up FUD's maillist.php script as a drop-in
replacement for mhonarc/pipermail archiving. Wow.
Unfortunately for us, FUD only has one developer and also does not
integrate well with Mambo Open Source, the CMS we have chosen for our
own Website. We are looking at developing open source Mambo components
to connect Mailman lists with existing components in Mambo. This would
include synchronizing subscriber lists with the user database and some
sort of Mambo frontend for managing subscriptions. For discussions, it
would provide bidirectional posting via either email or a fully-fledged
web forum. For newsletters, it would provide an archive.
For what it's worth, and for the record: for a few years now, to no
avail so far, I've been probing the community forums for various
promising forums about mailing list/forum/CMS integration:
FUD Forum: http://www.fudforum.org PHPBB: http://www.phpbb.com M2F for phpbb: http://m2f.sourceforge.net Simple Machines Forum: http://www.simplemachines.org Mambo Simpleboard: http://tsmf.jigsnet.com/
Speaking only for myself, I would very much like to see us get to a
situation where we can eliminate these two FAQ entries, and basically
"just make it work". I think this would be a huge benefit to the
entire Mailman community.
Well, I think I addressed this above in part - the problem really is
that Plesk makes it very easy to do alot of very powerful things. Like
with the mysql databases you can set up, for example, people have an
expectation that Mailman will be turnkey, which it really is not. I'm
not sure it ever should be, though I do think (as I discussed above
too) it would be helpful to have an easier frontend for subscribers and
even for basic moderator functions. This would make Mailman more ready
for wide adoption, even by regular everyday people who just want to set
up a newsletter or discussion group and aren't interested in the
technical aspects.
I can't help you with the Python coding, and I don't know squat about
Plesk, but if you need help with Mailman administration, please let me
know.
Super - would be grateful for help here too, actually.
I'm willing to step up and do what I can to help towards this goal,
and I hope that other people on this list are willing and able to do
the same.
Great - would be happy to talk with anyone about this!
Cheers,
Tobias
-- Tobias Eigen Executive Director
Kabissa - Space for Change in Africa http://www.kabissa.org
- Kabissa's vision is for a socially, economically, politically, and
environmentally vibrant Africa, supported by a strong network of
effective civil society organizations. *
At 10:18 PM -0500 2005-02-07, Tobias Eigen wrote:
As regards your two faq questions -
It's funny. A totally different question regarding integration between Mailman and Plesk finally lead me to create FAQ 6.15 at http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq06.015.htp.
This FAQ I think is still perfectly adequate, except perhaps you may want to refer people to the Plesk Forum at http://forum.sw-soft.com/ for help.
Done.Any version of Plesk higher than Plesk 7 comes with an older version of Mailman installed, and enables Plesk clients to add/remove mailman lists through their control panel. This is nifty, but does not come with the benefits of newer versions of Mailman, and because it seems so simple it trips alot of people up since it encourages them to set up Mailman lists when really they probably only need something simpler.
It is possible to trick Plesk into recognizing newer versions installed manually but it's not for the faint of heart.
Hmm. This is a good note to include in the FAQ entry.
I hope you don't mind if I use it, but would you like this quote to be attributed to you by name? I didn't do that initially, because I feared you might get inundated with e-mail questions from other people, and I don't want to put you in that kind of a position unless you're willing to take that risk.
Of course, when you're talking about simulating the functionality of Yahoo!Groups, there's also FAQ 1.26 at http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.026.htp.
I think this FAQ needs to be updated. I would not recommend m2f which has been stuck at beta for a very long time and seems to be going nowhere fast.
Will do.Love the dedication of those guys but really it seems they've bitten off more than they can chew. A successful forum/list integration is done over at the unfortunately named FUDFORUM - http://www.fudforum.org. We use it very actively for two discussion lists and it has perfect bidirectional communication between the Mailman lists and forums. I am incredibly impressed by what the single developer of FUD has been able to achieve with this forum.
Is this stuff publicly available? Should we refer people to it?For what it's worth, and for the record: for a few years now, to no avail so far, I've been probing the community forums for various promising forums about mailing list/forum/CMS integration:
FUD Forum: http://www.fudforum.org PHPBB: http://www.phpbb.com M2F for phpbb: http://m2f.sourceforge.net Simple Machines Forum: http://www.simplemachines.org Mambo Simpleboard: http://tsmf.jigsnet.com/
Of these, we know that you like FUD Forum, and m2f leaves much to be desired. Do any of the others provide any integration features with Mailman?
Well, I think I addressed this above in part - the problem really is that Plesk makes it very easy to do alot of very powerful things. Like with the mysql databases you can set up, for example, people have an expectation that Mailman will be turnkey, which it really is not. I'm not sure it ever should be, though I do think (as I discussed above too) it would be helpful to have an easier frontend for subscribers and even for basic moderator functions. This would make Mailman more ready for wide adoption, even by regular everyday people who just want to set up a newsletter or discussion group and aren't interested in the technical aspects.
I agree that we can (and should) make Mailman easier to use and administrate. Of course, that has to be balanced with the desire to have additional features, usually coming from the more advanced sites and programmers. I wouldn't want to create a fork of Mailman, but it would be nice if we could find some way to combine both ease-of-use and power features.
Of course, others can always disagree with the balance that we try to strike, but it would be nice if we could get their help in trying to fix those issues from within Mailman, as opposed to having them take what we've got and then add their own tools to munge it beyond recognition.
-- Brad Knowles, brad@stop.mail-abuse.org
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
-- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755SAGE member since 1995. See http://www.sage.org/ for more info.
For what it's worth, and for the record: for a few years now, to no avail so far, I've been probing the community forums for various promising forums about mailing list/forum/CMS integration:
FUD Forum: http://www.fudforum.org PHPBB: http://www.phpbb.com M2F for phpbb: http://m2f.sourceforge.net Simple Machines Forum: http://www.simplemachines.org Mambo Simpleboard: http://tsmf.jigsnet.com/
Of these, we know that you like FUD Forum, and m2f leaves much to be desired. Do any of the others provide any integration features with Mailman?
phorum3 had the phorummail script to pipe mail into a post. I asked Brian last week and he was working on the updated one for phorum5 at that time. I looked and didn't see any cvs commits though. It didn't communicate with mailman though so subscriptions and users are completely separated.
drupal has a listhandler module.
Joe
participants (3)
-
Brad Knowles -
Joe Stewart -
Tobias Eigen