Face lift for User Interface
Hi all. Being a graphic designer I'm particularly interested in the "look and feel" of the interface for Mailman. The current interface is pretty good, certainly better than most I've used. But it could use some improvement. With that in mind, I've made a mockup page for the General Options page. For those who are interested, and especially those who actually work on the HTML for the interface, please take a look at www.Dionysia.org/temp/mailman/ and see what you think. Thanks. --Dan
Dionysos@Dionysia.org Daniel G. Delaney www.Dionysia.org/~dionysos/ PGP Public Key: /~dionysos/pgp.html
I just took a look at the mock-up...I agree. The mockup has a more refined, 'clean' look...thumbs up! (but as Dan said, the existing interface puts most competitors to shame)
Corbett J. Klempay Trilogy Software, Inc. 512.685.4193 (W) | 512.750.1372 (C) corbett.klempay@trilogy.com
-----Original Message----- From: mailman-developers-admin@python.org [mailto:mailman-developers-admin@python.org]On Behalf Of Dan Delaney Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 1999 4:00 PM To: mailman-developers@python.org Subject: [Mailman-Developers] Face lift for User Interface
Hi all. Being a graphic designer I'm particularly interested in the "look and feel" of the interface for Mailman. The current interface is pretty good, certainly better than most I've used. But it could use some improvement. With that in mind, I've made a mockup page for the General Options page. For those who are interested, and especially those who actually work on the HTML for the interface, please take a look at www.Dionysia.org/temp/mailman/ and see what you think. Thanks. --Dan
Dionysos@Dionysia.org Daniel G. Delaney www.Dionysia.org/~dionysos/ PGP Public Key: /~dionysos/pgp.html
Mailman-Developers maillist - Mailman-Developers@python.org http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers
"CJK" == Corbett J Klempay corbett.klempay@trilogy.com writes:
CJK> I just took a look at the mock-up...I agree. The mockup has
CJK> a more refined, 'clean' look...thumbs up! (but as Dan said,
CJK> the existing interface puts most competitors to shame)I saw a few of Dan's early attempts at the redesign, and this one (mockup3) is by far the best. Dan, I really like what you've done! If other people agree, let's look at getting these changes into Mailman post 1.0.
-Barry
At 17:28 7/27/99 -0400, Barry A. Warsaw wrote:
CJK> I just took a look at the mock-up...I agree. The mockup has CJK> a more refined, 'clean' look...thumbs up! (but as Dan said, CJK> the existing interface puts most competitors to shame)
I saw a few of Dan's early attempts at the redesign, and this one (mockup3) is by far the best. Dan, I really like what you've done! If other people agree, let's look at getting these changes into Mailman post 1.0.
I definitely agree. The new design is much cleaner and looks much more professional.
Adam < http://shadowrun.html.com/tss / adamj@shadowrun.html.com / ICQ# 2350330 >
On Tue, Jul 27, 1999 at 04:59:33PM -0400, Dan Delaney wrote:
Hi all. Being a graphic designer I'm particularly interested in the "look and feel" of the interface for Mailman. The current interface is pretty good, certainly better than most I've used. But it could use some improvement. With that in mind, I've made a mockup page for the General Options page. For those who are interested, and especially those who actually work on the HTML for the interface, please take a look at www.Dionysia.org/temp/mailman/ and see what you think.
I would make only one major recommendations... drop all the style information out of the tags, and put it in a style sheet. Most of the stuff you're doing, especially colors would be better that way. Then you could actually ship 3-4 style sheets with different colors on them to people :-) Also, it reduces the amount of code in the page A LOT.
Chris
| Christopher Petrilli ``Television is bubble-gum for | petrilli@amber.org the mind.''-Frank Lloyd Wright
"CP" == Christopher Petrilli petrilli@amber.org writes:
CP> I would make only one major recommendations... drop all the
CP> style information out of the tags, and put it in a style
CP> sheet. Most of the stuff you're doing, especially colors
CP> would be better that way. Then you could actually ship 3-4
CP> style sheets with different colors on them to people :-) Also,
CP> it reduces the amount of code in the page A LOT.Don't forget though, that we have to support older browsers. I think there are list admins with users still using e.g. NS 3. This stuff must work for them too.
-Barry
On Wed, Jul 28, 1999 at 11:22:18AM -0400, Barry A. Warsaw wrote:
"CP" == Christopher Petrilli petrilli@amber.org writes:
CP> I would make only one major recommendations... drop all the CP> style information out of the tags, and put it in a style CP> sheet. Most of the stuff you're doing, especially colors CP> would be better that way. Then you could actually ship 3-4 CP> style sheets with different colors on them to people :-) Also, CP> it reduces the amount of code in the page A LOT.Don't forget though, that we have to support older browsers. I think there are list admins with users still using e.g. NS 3. This stuff must work for them too.
If you know how to use style-sheets, it's not a problem. You would get a gradual degredation, where colors would disappear, and maybe somesmall formatting details, but it gains you a lot of flexibility in formatting, and makes it easier for people to change how things look to suit their own site.
Chris
| Christopher Petrilli ``Television is bubble-gum for | petrilli@amber.org the mind.''-Frank Lloyd Wright
-----Original Message----- From: Barry A. Warsaw
"CP" == Christopher Petrilli petrilli@amber.org writes: CP> I would make only one major recommendations... drop all the CP> style information out of the tags, and put it in a style CP> sheet. Most of the stuff you're doing, especially colors CP> would be better that way. Then you could actually ship 3-4 CP> style sheets with different colors on them to people :-) Also, CP> it reduces the amount of code in the page A LOT.
Don't forget though, that we have to support older browsers. I think there are list admins with users still using e.g. NS 3. This stuff must work for them too.
That's correct. And even though (as someone else said) the pages would still work on older browsers if the style sheets are done correctly, there is still one major stumbling block to style sheets: the fact that they are not implimented completely correctly in ANY browser. I've found several problems with the way IE5 implements style sheets, and Netscrape's style sheet support is worthless. Nonetheless, I'll set up a second mockup using style sheets and see how it works out. I'll let you all know when it's ready.
As far as making it so that it is easy to change the colors to match your site, there are two options. Style sheets is certainly a good way to do that. But the other option is to have option variables set for the colors and have the "COLOR=" parts of the HTMl file generated by the Python code which can insert the contents of the color preferences variables. --Dan
Dionysos@Dionysia.org Daniel G. Delaney www.Dionysia.org/~dionysos/ PGP Public Key: /~dionysos/pgp.html
On Wed, Jul 28, 1999 at 12:18:57PM -0400, Dan Delaney wrote:
That's correct. And even though (as someone else said) the pages would still work on older browsers if the style sheets are done correctly, there is still one major stumbling block to style sheets: the fact that they are not implimented completely correctly in ANY browser. I've found several problems with the way IE5 implements style sheets, and Netscrape's style sheet support is worthless. Nonetheless, I'll set up a second mockup using style sheets and see how it works out. I'll let you all know when it's ready.
Well, colors work fine across all browsers that I've been able to test with. More advanced features aren't consistent, but some things that I've not had any real problems with:
* Colors
* Font size, especially relative (never use absolute)
* Faces
* Alignment (generally, except when nested)Chris
| Christopher Petrilli ``Television is bubble-gum for | petrilli@amber.org the mind.''-Frank Lloyd Wright
From: Christopher Petrilli
Well, colors work fine across all browsers that I've been able to test with. More advanced features aren't consistent, but some things that I've not had any real problems with:
- Colors
Well, everything works great in these new CSS mockups except for one thing. NETSCRAPE DOESN'T SET THE COLORS FOR THE BODY TAG! Yes. I'm using Netscrape 4.5 and when I specify a style sheet like "BODY { background-color: #000000; color: #FFFFFF }", Netscrape doesn't set the page background to black and text to white. I don't know whether or not MSIE does because my copy of MSIE5 bombs as soon as it is launched (it's running on WinNT, what do you expect! :-), so could someone please check it out (CSS mockup 3 is the one that should have a black background for the page) with MSIE (versions 3, 4, and 5) and let me know what it does?
Anyway, go check out the new CSS mockups at www.Dionysia.org/temp/mailman/ and let me know what you think.
- Font size, especially relative (never use absolute)
I always specify type size in ems, which is the ideal relative type size measurment unit.
--Dan
Dionysos@Dionysia.org Daniel G. Delaney www.Dionysia.org/~dionysos/ PGP Public Key: /~dionysos/pgp.html
On Thu, Jul 29, 1999 at 11:58:05AM -0400, Dan Delaney wrote:
From: Christopher Petrilli
Well, colors work fine across all browsers that I've been able to test with. More advanced features aren't consistent, but some things that I've not had any real problems with:
- Colors
Well, everything works great in these new CSS mockups except for one thing. NETSCRAPE DOESN'T SET THE COLORS FOR THE BODY TAG! Yes. I'm using Netscrape 4.5 and when I specify a style sheet like "BODY { background-color: #000000; color: #FFFFFF }", Netscrape doesn't set the page background to black and text to white. I don't know whether or not MSIE does because my copy of MSIE5 bombs as soon as it is launched (it's running on WinNT, what do you expect! :-), so could someone please check it out (CSS mockup 3 is the one that should have a black background for the page) with MSIE (versions 3, 4, and 5) and let me know what it does?
Well, I forgot about this, IE behaves properly in this case... but that's definately a bummer... I just set the body tag manually.
Anyway, go check out the new CSS mockups at www.Dionysia.org/temp/mailman/ and let me know what you think.
Looks good, and loads faster for me.
- Font size, especially relative (never use absolute)
I always specify type size in ems, which is the ideal relative type size measurment unit.
Um, this breaks on *NIX because tehy have rather antiquated ideas about fonts. I get this constantly from Linux people "whine whine, your fonts are too small"... I have to set them to like 18pt before they quit whining, so I just quitsetting ANYTHING in absolute. Um, setting font size in "ems" is a riot, BTW, since the definition of an em depends on the font you're in, no? :-) Try using percentages. Spacing is defined in ems, not fonts.
Chris
| Christopher Petrilli ``Television is bubble-gum for | petrilli@amber.org the mind.''-Frank Lloyd Wright
I like the new look also. Add my vote to the Yes side please.
-- Phillip P. Porch root@sco.theporch.com NIC:PP1573 finger for http://www.theporch.com UTM - 16 514548E 3994397N PGP key
participants (6)
-
Adam J -
Barry A. Warsaw -
Christopher Petrilli -
Corbett J. Klempay -
Dan Delaney -
Phillip Porch