Hello,
I have recently installed mailman.
As a result of customising the user interface, I have noticed that
the HTML of both the administrative and user interface is quite
incorrect. In particular the user interface, which shows many layers
of intervention (tags appear with too many case changes!).
I am attempting to clean up the code (as HTML 4.01 Transitional), but
I wonder if there is already an ongoing tidying up or redesign that
would make my work a waste of time.
One change in Mailman that would make correction and editing of HTML
templates easier would be to have all Mailman inner tags written
without using <> or other strange characters. For instance <MM-Form-
End> could be simply MMFormEnd. This way a template could validate as
valid HTML without being parsed first, as long as these Mailman tags
are not required in strange places.
Clearly the documents could loose its validity once parsed, but this
too can be avoided with careful design of the tags. For instance the
footer tag (I think <MM-Mailman-Footer>) generates at the moment
incorrect HTML all by itself and so cannot be corrected by a list
administrator.
I see now that there is a General Web UI item in the TODO. Let me add
a plea: please do not use php for the future UI!
Thanks
Giuliano
--On 1 March 2006 00:52:09 +0100 Giuliano Gavazzi <dev+lists@humph.com> wrote:
Hello,
I have recently installed mailman. As a result of customising the user interface, I have noticed that the HTML of both the administrative and user interface is quite incorrect. In particular the user interface, which shows many layers of intervention (tags appear with too many case changes!). I am attempting to clean up the code (as HTML 4.01 Transitional), but I wonder if there is already an ongoing tidying up or redesign that would make my work a waste of time.
One change in Mailman that would make correction and editing of HTML templates easier would be to have all Mailman inner tags written without using <> or other strange characters. For instance <MM-Form- End> could be simply MMFormEnd.
Perhaps a comment could be used instead:
<!-- MMFormEnd -->
This way a template could validate as valid HTML without being parsed first, as long as these Mailman tags are not required in strange places. Clearly the documents could loose its validity once parsed, but this too can be avoided with careful design of the tags. For instance the footer tag (I think <MM-Mailman-Footer>) generates at the moment incorrect HTML all by itself and so cannot be corrected by a list administrator.
I see now that there is a General Web UI item in the TODO. Let me add a plea: please do not use php for the future UI!
Well, it's a Python project, so you should be safe there!
Thanks
Giuliano
Mailman-Developers mailing list Mailman-Developers@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-developers/iane%40sussex.a c.uk
Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp
-- Ian Eiloart IT Services, University of Sussex
On Feb 28, 2006, at 6:52 PM, Giuliano Gavazzi wrote:
I see now that there is a General Web UI item in the TODO. Let me add a plea: please do not use php for the future UI!
Don't worry, that won't happen. What might/should eventually happen
is the adoption of a decent Python templating engine that works much
better than our homegrown version, and is more i18n friendly to boot.
-Barry
I vote for Zope Page Templates. http://www.owlfish.com/software/simpleTAL/
-jag
On Thu, 2006-03-02 at 09:23 -0500, Barry Warsaw wrote:
On Feb 28, 2006, at 6:52 PM, Giuliano Gavazzi wrote:
I see now that there is a General Web UI item in the TODO. Let me add a plea: please do not use php for the future UI!
Don't worry, that won't happen. What might/should eventually happen
is the adoption of a decent Python templating engine that works much
better than our homegrown version, and is more i18n friendly to boot.-Barry
Mailman-Developers mailing list Mailman-Developers@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-developers Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-developers/jag%40fsf.org
Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp
-- Joshua Ginsberg <jag@fsf.org> Free Software Foundation - Senior Systems Administrator
On Thu, 2006-03-02 at 11:57 -0500, Joshua Ginsberg wrote:
I vote for Zope Page Templates. http://www.owlfish.com/software/simpleTAL/
I actually spent a lot of time when prototyping MM3 and used TAL (the one from Zope3) and found it excruciating to use, especially when i18n was added. It's been a while, but from what I can remember, it got to the point where the templates where inscrutable, impossible to debug, very difficult to extend or modify, and very difficult to reason about. I really /wanted/ to use TAL but it was way too unwieldy to develop. The implementation was also very slow.
-Barry
"BAW" == Barry Warsaw <barry@python.org> writes:
BAW> I really /wanted/ to use TAL but it was way too unwieldy to
BAW> develop.+1 Unfortunately, TAL doesn't seem to scale _down_ to typical volunteer-staffed open source.
-- School of Systems and Information Engineering http://turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp University of Tsukuba Tennodai 1-1-1 Tsukuba 305-8573 JAPAN Ask not how you can "do" free software business; ask what your business can "do for" free software.
participants (5)
-
Barry Warsaw -
Giuliano Gavazzi -
Ian Eiloart -
Joshua Ginsberg -
Stephen J. Turnbull