At 10:21 AM -0700 2004-07-02, Somuchfun wrote:

This is not the point here, J.C. The important point is the fact that mailman did introduce a new way of handling bounces without a way to opt-out of this new way.

Sure.  Just don't upgrade.

                                                        Normally every

software package that introduces a new way of doing a certain task (opposed to a complete new functionality) there is an option to opt-out and continue "the old way" until all proper changes have been done.

Certainly not every package does this.  Some do, some don't.  If 

you want to run the latest version of many packages, you might have to upgrade your OS and/or hardware to do that. Even if they aren't issuing patches/fixes for the old version, you have to decide if it's worthwhile to upgrade those other things, in order to get the thing you want.

This is called "life".

Take cPanel for example, they have still not gotten around to make the proper adjustments to their highly complex environment and they are used hundreds of thousands of times around the world by web hosting companies. Right now people are unsubscribed because of this all over the place for no apparent reason (from the view of the user). The only way to not end up in trouble in this environment is to turn off bounce handling completely in mailman 2.1.5

Anyone using CPanel with Mailman needs to get their support from 

CPanel. If they installed a new version of Mailman without getting that from the CPanel folks, and getting it suitably modified to fit their method of working, then they've shot themselves in the foot and they have only themselves to blame.

Or do you blame BMW when you swap the engine in your car for the 

latest and greatest from Mercedes, only to find that things don't work the way you wanted?

So looking at this, do you still think it was wise to introduce VERP bounce probes by default and by force with no choice?

Let's go over this one last time.

Repeat after me -- NO ONE IS FORCING YOU TO UPGRADE!!!

-- Brad Knowles, <brad.knowles@skynet.be>

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania.

SAGE member since 1995. See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.