Re: [Mailman-Developers] [Mailman Confluence] Development > Web UI Mockups
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On Thu, Aug 05, 2010 at 05:21:00AM -0700, wiki@list.org wrote:
-------- explanation of the pictures --------
For those who can't see this page, it's a few (very good) drawing showing two tabs: user settings and membership settings.
the user settings tab has:
[ Logout ]
Real name [ box ]
Password [ box ]
Language [ drop-down: Language 1 / Language 2 / Language 3 ]
[ Save changes ]
the membership settings tab has:
[ Logout ]
Membership settings
Some mockup text asking the user to click the
membership list they wish to edit...
[ LINK: Membership list 1 ]
[ LINK: Membership list 2 ]
[ LINK: Membership list 3 ]
With an arrow, demonstrating what happens on click:
Lorem ipsum dolor ... labore et
Hide address () Yes () No
Receive list copy () Yes () No
Receive own postings () Yes () No
Delivery mode [ drop-down: Mode 1 / Mode 2 / Mode 3 ]
--------- end explanation --------------
What that's missing to me is:
* a password change option;
* a password reset option;
* a list of "my email addresses";
* the ability to set language for the lists, rather than
settings, or perhaps change 'Language' to 'Default/Prefered
Language'
It'd be nice if clicking on a list where one's an admin/moderator,
there was a special link or something to take one to those options
for the list.
-- ``Government incompetence [is] one of the UK's most important safeguards against totalitarianism.'' (John Lettice)
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Hi Adam, you were really fast to comment, I had intended to send an email to the list asking for people's opinions but you beat me on that. :) I think your suggestions are great (and I really appreciate them) but I'm not sure I fully understand the intent behind at least one of them so I figured I had to get back to you.
On Thu, Aug 5, 2010 at 2:32 PM, Adam McGreggor <adam-mailman@amyl.org.uk>wrote:
The password field was intended for the possibility to change the password (I forgot to add a field "confirm password" but I added that now as well as changed the label for the password field to "change password").
Since you need to be logged in to come to this page I think the password reset option might be better suited on the login page since I guess people would rather use it if they forgot their password and if that's the case adding such a field here wouldn't help much.
This is what I don't fully understand. I now added a drop-down menu with "my email addresses" but I'm not sure this is what you asked for since I don't fully understand the intent behind this suggestion. Is it to be able to change email addresses or just to view them (I'm also not sure what'll be possible in Mailman)? For the latter the drop down menu to just view the list might work and one could also possibly set one address to default but to change them we'd need something different. Should it rather be located on the membership settings page or on the user settings page?
* the ability to set language for the lists, rather than
settings, or perhaps change 'Language' to 'Default/Prefered
Language'
I changed the label to "Default/Preferred Language", hope that's ok?
It'd be nice if clicking on a list where one's an admin/moderator,
there was a special link or something to take one to those options
for the list.
I added a link on the first membership page that'll be visible if you're an admin and will take you to the admin settings. Is this what you asked for?
Other people having suggestions/ideas/thoughts on the design are more than welcome to post them. We might start with this view in a few days so the more feedback we can get on the design before starting the better.
Cheers, Anna
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- On 05 Aug 2010, Anna Granudd wrote:
I have a couple of suggestions on the membership settings UI. I'm not sure how in-scope these are for the current discussion, but I don't want to look for a better place and forget to say anything. :)
Many people must interact with several different MLMs, so anything Mailman can do to establish a middle ground among configuration terminology is very good. It's pretty common for user options to be phrased in terms of what the particular MLM expects users to want, but I think it would be better to phrase them in a consistently positive language, so that users aren't in the position of choosing double negatives: "don't not do this thing". In the mockup this would mean changing "Hide Address (YES/no)" to "Show Address (yes/NO)" -- where caps indicate what I assume to be the default.
This has to do partly with code development rather than with site design, but the design is affected.
I guess this is really several thoughts rolled into one, but since I'm diagramming it's easier this way. The mockup suggests that clicking a membership settings option for a list reloads the window with the settings -- or at any rate (even if it's not a page load) that it replaces the view completely. I'd rather see this in the same frame, with the settings box's content replaced when a list is selected. Let's see if I can still do ascii art:
|User settings| |Membership settings| |Admin settings|
+----------------------------------------------------+
List 1 | Membership settings for list 3 | | | List 2 | Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, et cetera... | | | L*st 3 | Show address [ ] yes [x] no |
*click* | Receive own postings [x] yes [ ] no | *dhtml* -->| ... | *magic* | | | [Copy settings] [Paste settings] | | [Reset to defaults] [Change settings] | | | +----------------------------------------------------+| Receive list copy [x] yes [ ] no |
... with admin settings working similarly. My thought for copy/paste is that settings can be serialized in Javascript into a JSON object and stored in a hidden element on the page, and recalled for another list's settings.
There probably needs to be a setting for "pasting" settings to all lists, too.
The "Admin settings" tab need appear only if there are actually lists that you admin, and as Adam said it might be nice to place a little shortcut beside the list name in Membership settings.
-- -D. dgc@uchicago.edu IT Services University of Chicago
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On Thu, Aug 05, 2010 at 04:32:27PM +0200, Anna Granudd wrote:
I'm not sure I fully understand the intent behind at least one of them so I figured I had to get back to you.
Sure, no probs!
Yes! That's very true (about only seeing the page once logged in!).
*engages brain*
(quite a long response, sorry.)
AIUI (I'm not properly running MM3 anywhere, at the moment), MM3 understands "these are all of my email addresses", and associates those to the person, e.g., I may be subscribed to various lists on lists.example.org with these addresses:
adam@amyl.org.uk
adam-mailman@amyl.org.uk
adam-*@amyl.org.uk
adam+*@amyl.org.uk
adam@toomanyhats.com
backintwoweeks@toomanyhats.org
example@gmail.com
foo+spam@no-mx.thisparish.org
iveforgottenwhoiam@hotmail.com
listmaster@local.no2id.net
postmaster@amyl.org.uk
spamharvest@amyl.org.uk
IMO, it would be nice to:
* Set one of those as my 'default' address for
* ... when I subscribe to a new list, from an address Mailman
knows about (hum, the fun part of this could be when
subscribing to a new list, with an 'unknown' address,
and later migrating that to 'my account'),
* ... sending 'system' stuff to (e.g., password reset
mails).
* Be able to set mail delivery for a chosen list to another
of my email addresses (either in replacement of, or together)
* Send administriva elsewhere, if I'm an admin/mod (e.g., to
(post|list)master@)
( * Super-bonus-points, to be able to set Mailman detected HTML mails to another of my (webmail) addresses )
* "Forget about this email address" (and change my subscriptions
to.../unsubscribe me completely)
* Set all lists (for a given address) over to "no mail"
(awesomeness would be "until YYYY-MM-DD" -- for dealing with
holidays, I don't no-mail, because I will forget about one
list)
I'm not too sure where it should be. Perhaps as a multiple-selecting options box, with subscribed addresses (by default/AJAXywhatever) selected?
Mailing List 1 [ adam@amyl.org.uk ]
[ X adam-mailman@amyl.org.uk X ]
[ adam@toomanyhats.com ]
[ X example@gmail.com X ]
[ .... ]
Mailing List 2 [ foo@example.org ] [ admin list 2 ]
where 'X' foo 'x' denotes a selection, and the wildcard addresses aren't listed...
Actually, as I think of it, maybe selecting an address that's not subscribed should trigger a "do you want to subscribe to List X as baz@example.org" -- overkill/function creep? Is it something users would want?
Sure! Thanks!
Lovely!
Thanks, btw for the efforts. There's been a lot of thought here, from all. And design by committee rarely works, and I'm hard skinned, so feel free to ignore my views!
-- ``The English people are like the English beer-- froth on top, dregs at the bottom; the middle, excellent.'' (Voltaire)
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On Aug 05, 2010, at 06:03 PM, Adam McGreggor wrote:
I rather like the model that Launchpad uses. You have one email address which is your "preferred address" and in all default situations, it uses this. For example, when subscribing to a list, by default this is the address subscribed, and if the system needs to contact you, it uses the default address. When you're changing which of your many validated addresses a list should deliver to, you see one special select called "Preferred address". The nice thing about this is that you can change your preferred address and in one fell swoop change all your deliveries.
Note too that non-validated but registered addresses are *not* shown in this list (because we don't really know if you own it or not).
Yep.
BTW, the mockups look great! -Barry
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Hi Adam, you were really fast to comment, I had intended to send an email to the list asking for people's opinions but you beat me on that. :) I think your suggestions are great (and I really appreciate them) but I'm not sure I fully understand the intent behind at least one of them so I figured I had to get back to you.
On Thu, Aug 5, 2010 at 2:32 PM, Adam McGreggor <adam-mailman@amyl.org.uk>wrote:
The password field was intended for the possibility to change the password (I forgot to add a field "confirm password" but I added that now as well as changed the label for the password field to "change password").
Since you need to be logged in to come to this page I think the password reset option might be better suited on the login page since I guess people would rather use it if they forgot their password and if that's the case adding such a field here wouldn't help much.
This is what I don't fully understand. I now added a drop-down menu with "my email addresses" but I'm not sure this is what you asked for since I don't fully understand the intent behind this suggestion. Is it to be able to change email addresses or just to view them (I'm also not sure what'll be possible in Mailman)? For the latter the drop down menu to just view the list might work and one could also possibly set one address to default but to change them we'd need something different. Should it rather be located on the membership settings page or on the user settings page?
* the ability to set language for the lists, rather than
settings, or perhaps change 'Language' to 'Default/Prefered
Language'
I changed the label to "Default/Preferred Language", hope that's ok?
It'd be nice if clicking on a list where one's an admin/moderator,
there was a special link or something to take one to those options
for the list.
I added a link on the first membership page that'll be visible if you're an admin and will take you to the admin settings. Is this what you asked for?
Other people having suggestions/ideas/thoughts on the design are more than welcome to post them. We might start with this view in a few days so the more feedback we can get on the design before starting the better.
Cheers, Anna
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- On 05 Aug 2010, Anna Granudd wrote:
I have a couple of suggestions on the membership settings UI. I'm not sure how in-scope these are for the current discussion, but I don't want to look for a better place and forget to say anything. :)
Many people must interact with several different MLMs, so anything Mailman can do to establish a middle ground among configuration terminology is very good. It's pretty common for user options to be phrased in terms of what the particular MLM expects users to want, but I think it would be better to phrase them in a consistently positive language, so that users aren't in the position of choosing double negatives: "don't not do this thing". In the mockup this would mean changing "Hide Address (YES/no)" to "Show Address (yes/NO)" -- where caps indicate what I assume to be the default.
This has to do partly with code development rather than with site design, but the design is affected.
I guess this is really several thoughts rolled into one, but since I'm diagramming it's easier this way. The mockup suggests that clicking a membership settings option for a list reloads the window with the settings -- or at any rate (even if it's not a page load) that it replaces the view completely. I'd rather see this in the same frame, with the settings box's content replaced when a list is selected. Let's see if I can still do ascii art:
|User settings| |Membership settings| |Admin settings|
+----------------------------------------------------+
List 1 | Membership settings for list 3 | | | List 2 | Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, et cetera... | | | L*st 3 | Show address [ ] yes [x] no |
*click* | Receive own postings [x] yes [ ] no | *dhtml* -->| ... | *magic* | | | [Copy settings] [Paste settings] | | [Reset to defaults] [Change settings] | | | +----------------------------------------------------+| Receive list copy [x] yes [ ] no |
... with admin settings working similarly. My thought for copy/paste is that settings can be serialized in Javascript into a JSON object and stored in a hidden element on the page, and recalled for another list's settings.
There probably needs to be a setting for "pasting" settings to all lists, too.
The "Admin settings" tab need appear only if there are actually lists that you admin, and as Adam said it might be nice to place a little shortcut beside the list name in Membership settings.
-- -D. dgc@uchicago.edu IT Services University of Chicago
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On Thu, Aug 05, 2010 at 04:32:27PM +0200, Anna Granudd wrote:
I'm not sure I fully understand the intent behind at least one of them so I figured I had to get back to you.
Sure, no probs!
Yes! That's very true (about only seeing the page once logged in!).
*engages brain*
(quite a long response, sorry.)
AIUI (I'm not properly running MM3 anywhere, at the moment), MM3 understands "these are all of my email addresses", and associates those to the person, e.g., I may be subscribed to various lists on lists.example.org with these addresses:
adam@amyl.org.uk
adam-mailman@amyl.org.uk
adam-*@amyl.org.uk
adam+*@amyl.org.uk
adam@toomanyhats.com
backintwoweeks@toomanyhats.org
example@gmail.com
foo+spam@no-mx.thisparish.org
iveforgottenwhoiam@hotmail.com
listmaster@local.no2id.net
postmaster@amyl.org.uk
spamharvest@amyl.org.uk
IMO, it would be nice to:
* Set one of those as my 'default' address for
* ... when I subscribe to a new list, from an address Mailman
knows about (hum, the fun part of this could be when
subscribing to a new list, with an 'unknown' address,
and later migrating that to 'my account'),
* ... sending 'system' stuff to (e.g., password reset
mails).
* Be able to set mail delivery for a chosen list to another
of my email addresses (either in replacement of, or together)
* Send administriva elsewhere, if I'm an admin/mod (e.g., to
(post|list)master@)
( * Super-bonus-points, to be able to set Mailman detected HTML mails to another of my (webmail) addresses )
* "Forget about this email address" (and change my subscriptions
to.../unsubscribe me completely)
* Set all lists (for a given address) over to "no mail"
(awesomeness would be "until YYYY-MM-DD" -- for dealing with
holidays, I don't no-mail, because I will forget about one
list)
I'm not too sure where it should be. Perhaps as a multiple-selecting options box, with subscribed addresses (by default/AJAXywhatever) selected?
Mailing List 1 [ adam@amyl.org.uk ]
[ X adam-mailman@amyl.org.uk X ]
[ adam@toomanyhats.com ]
[ X example@gmail.com X ]
[ .... ]
Mailing List 2 [ foo@example.org ] [ admin list 2 ]
where 'X' foo 'x' denotes a selection, and the wildcard addresses aren't listed...
Actually, as I think of it, maybe selecting an address that's not subscribed should trigger a "do you want to subscribe to List X as baz@example.org" -- overkill/function creep? Is it something users would want?
Sure! Thanks!
Lovely!
Thanks, btw for the efforts. There's been a lot of thought here, from all. And design by committee rarely works, and I'm hard skinned, so feel free to ignore my views!
-- ``The English people are like the English beer-- froth on top, dregs at the bottom; the middle, excellent.'' (Voltaire)
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On Aug 05, 2010, at 06:03 PM, Adam McGreggor wrote:
I rather like the model that Launchpad uses. You have one email address which is your "preferred address" and in all default situations, it uses this. For example, when subscribing to a list, by default this is the address subscribed, and if the system needs to contact you, it uses the default address. When you're changing which of your many validated addresses a list should deliver to, you see one special select called "Preferred address". The nice thing about this is that you can change your preferred address and in one fell swoop change all your deliveries.
Note too that non-validated but registered addresses are *not* shown in this list (because we don't really know if you own it or not).
Yep.
BTW, the mockups look great! -Barry
participants (4)
-
Adam McGreggor
-
Anna Granudd
-
Barry Warsaw
-
David Champion