On 10/25/11 6:00 AM, Murray S. Kucherawy wrote:

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-----Original Message----- From: Stephen J. Turnbull [mailto:stephen@xemacs.org] Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2011 2:50 AM To: Murray S. Kucherawy Cc: mailman-developers@python.org Subject: Re: [Mailman-Developers] New RFC on using DKIM with MLMs

I agree, and have no objection to advocacy, or to RFCs that take advantage of more modern thinking. But that's very different from arguing that a defect in the DKIM RFC is really a problem of the implementations. Well, I also don't agree with characterizing this as a defect in the DKIM RFC.

I would consider an RFC that tells some people they need to violate the laws of their country to follow it to have a defect.

Their are places, like Germany has been mentioned, where bulk mailers, like Mailing Lists, need to place in a prominent place unsubscription instructions.

It is a fact, that in the current state of software, the LIST-UNSUBSCRIBE header is not likely to be seen by a typical user.

Therefore, the only legal place to put the required notice is in the body of the message.

Now, if 90+% of people would see the LIST-UNSUBSCRIBE header someone might be able to make a case that the few who didn't should have been able to see it, but with Current MUAs it isn't seen. I suspect that (way) less than 10% of people would see the LIST-UNSUBSCRIBE header unless they went looking for it. Is there even an MUA that by default will show it? How many people have MUAs that can even be easily configured to show this header and not all headers? I can think of a few that can be configured to add arbitrary headers to the default show list, but these are not the ones used by most people, but I am not sure if I can think of one that knows about this header so you can add it without having to personally know about it.